DOOM to Heretic conversion pack and resource pack [V 1.25]

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Re: DOOM to Heretic conversion pack and resource pack [V 1.1

Postby Hexereticdoom » Tue Oct 13, 2020 1:56 pm

So does this means that we can make an Alien Vendetta or a Hell Revealed for Heretic??? :shock:

WOW. Simply WOW. I have to try this ASAP!!!!!

Many thanks MObreck, really, THANKS a lot for making this wonderful tool! :thumb: :cheers:
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Re: DOOM to Heretic conversion pack and resource pack [V 1.1

Postby NightFright » Tue Oct 13, 2020 2:05 pm

Don't expect too much. Many addons come with custom textures or sprites, then this mod reaches its limits quickly. It works really well with vanilla stuff, especially the original Doom 1+2 episodes, Sigil and NRFTL. I can only recommend Sigil with this, it's like the mod was made for it. The setting fits really well and the textures are spot-on.
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Re: DOOM to Heretic conversion pack and resource pack [V 1.1

Postby Mor'Ladim » Tue Oct 13, 2020 8:10 pm

MrRumbleRoses wrote:i've been trying to run this mod. and it just seems like it doesn't work as it should or something. like often at times either A. the enemies are invisible. or 2. things seem fine. but then the weapons are all fuck up in there palette coloring or something


You may have been trying to do the same thing I was the first time I gave this a try, due to the instructions being a little misleading. "For best results list the DOOM wad first, HereticMTOBase.pk3 second and HereticMTOToploader.wad last." is what it says, but as you can see, it looks like it is stating to load the Doom/Doom2.wad first. This is incorrect.

What you need to do is load your MAPSET first, then HereticMTOBase.pk3, followed by HereticMTOToploader.wad - then run it all with Heretic. So for example in the ZDoom Launcher the order would look like this:

1. SCYTHE.WAD (The mapset I wished to used)
2. HereticMTOBase.pk3
3. HereticMTOTopLoad.wad

Then when you run the game, select the "Doom 2 Stages" episode.
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Re: DOOM to Heretic conversion pack and resource pack [V 1.1

Postby MrRumbleRoses » Wed Oct 14, 2020 4:50 am

Mor'Ladim wrote:
MrRumbleRoses wrote:i've been trying to run this mod. and it just seems like it doesn't work as it should or something. like often at times either A. the enemies are invisible. or 2. things seem fine. but then the weapons are all fuck up in there palette coloring or something


You may have been trying to do the same thing I was the first time I gave this a try, due to the instructions being a little misleading. "For best results list the DOOM wad first, HereticMTOBase.pk3 second and HereticMTOToploader.wad last." is what it says, but as you can see, it looks like it is stating to load the Doom/Doom2.wad first. This is incorrect.

What you need to do is load your MAPSET first, then HereticMTOBase.pk3, followed by HereticMTOToploader.wad - then run it all with Heretic. So for example in the ZDoom Launcher the order would look like this:

1. SCYTHE.WAD (The mapset I wished to used)
2. HereticMTOBase.pk3
3. HereticMTOTopLoad.wad

Then when you run the game, select the "Doom 2 Stages" episode.

that's what i've been doing actually. like most of the stuff seems to be decently loaded up. but like. the weapons. items and some enemies palette's are all messed up
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Re: DOOM to Heretic conversion pack and resource pack [V 1.1

Postby Renzokuken » Wed Oct 14, 2020 11:55 am

MrRumbleRoses wrote:
Mor'Ladim wrote:
MrRumbleRoses wrote:i've been trying to run this mod. and it just seems like it doesn't work as it should or something. like often at times either A. the enemies are invisible. or 2. things seem fine. but then the weapons are all fuck up in there palette coloring or something


You may have been trying to do the same thing I was the first time I gave this a try, due to the instructions being a little misleading. "For best results list the DOOM wad first, HereticMTOBase.pk3 second and HereticMTOToploader.wad last." is what it says, but as you can see, it looks like it is stating to load the Doom/Doom2.wad first. This is incorrect.

What you need to do is load your MAPSET first, then HereticMTOBase.pk3, followed by HereticMTOToploader.wad - then run it all with Heretic. So for example in the ZDoom Launcher the order would look like this:

1. SCYTHE.WAD (The mapset I wished to used)
2. HereticMTOBase.pk3
3. HereticMTOTopLoad.wad

Then when you run the game, select the "Doom 2 Stages" episode.

that's what i've been doing actually. like most of the stuff seems to be decently loaded up. but like. the weapons. items and some enemies palette's are all messed up


Some mapsets just don't work with it because they rely on or alter the DOOM palette in some way. Scythe2 is the same.
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Re: DOOM to Heretic conversion pack and resource pack [V 1.1

Postby MrRumbleRoses » Wed Oct 14, 2020 3:29 pm

well then i don't understand how to play with the mod then without the palette being some kinda issue. i mean i'd like to be able to try this with Doom II for starters, but it's annoying to have to deal with the game giving those kinda issues. i could even tell right away something was wrong when i was on the title screen alone
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Re: DOOM to Heretic conversion pack and resource pack [V 1.1

Postby MObreck » Wed Oct 14, 2020 4:39 pm

MrRumbleRoses wrote:well then i don't understand how to play with the mod then without the palette being some kinda issue. i mean i'd like to be able to try this with Doom II for starters, but it's annoying to have to deal with the game giving those kinda issues. i could even tell right away something was wrong when i was on the title screen alone


If you are just trying to load up DOOM.wad or DOOM2.wad it won't work. You need to first move the stages to a seperate wad and use that.

Its annoying but there really isn't anything I can do about it from my end. DOOM2.wad is an IWAD so it contains palette data and a ton of other content that will conflict with Heretic's IWAD. I also don't imagine me providing all the unaltered DOOM/DOOM2 stages already moved to their own wad would go over well (copyright) so I can't really help in that regard either.
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Re: DOOM to Heretic conversion pack and resource pack [V 1.1

Postby MrRumbleRoses » Wed Oct 14, 2020 6:07 pm

MObreck wrote:
MrRumbleRoses wrote:well then i don't understand how to play with the mod then without the palette being some kinda issue. i mean i'd like to be able to try this with Doom II for starters, but it's annoying to have to deal with the game giving those kinda issues. i could even tell right away something was wrong when i was on the title screen alone


If you are just trying to load up DOOM.wad or DOOM2.wad it won't work. You need to first move the stages to a seperate wad and use that.

Its annoying but there really isn't anything I can do about it from my end. DOOM2.wad is an IWAD so it contains palette data and a ton of other content that will conflict with Heretic's IWAD. I also don't imagine me providing all the unaltered DOOM/DOOM2 stages already moved to their own wad would go over well (copyright) so I can't really help in that regard either.

does that involve the whole DM2CONVSTART or something? cause i tried using that, and that did nothing for me at all
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Re: DOOM to Heretic conversion pack and resource pack [V 1.1

Postby NightFright » Thu Oct 15, 2020 12:56 am

I just copied the maps to a separate wad, plain and simple. No modifications otherwise.
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Re: DOOM to Heretic conversion pack and resource pack [V 1.1

Postby MrRumbleRoses » Thu Oct 15, 2020 6:47 am

NightFright wrote:I just copied the maps to a separate wad, plain and simple. No modifications otherwise.

i gotta be honest. this mod in general, has been confusing to set up to play Doom maps and such with little to no issues. i just don't understand how to get the maps of Doom & Doom II even to work right without the palette's fucking up somehow. i'd really like to try those maps before i possibly do other wads of different mapsets
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Re: DOOM to Heretic conversion pack and resource pack [V 1.1

Postby Mor'Ladim » Thu Oct 15, 2020 3:05 pm

MrRumbleRoses wrote:
NightFright wrote:I just copied the maps to a separate wad, plain and simple. No modifications otherwise.

i gotta be honest. this mod in general, has been confusing to set up to play Doom maps and such with little to no issues. i just don't understand how to get the maps of Doom & Doom II even to work right without the palette's fucking up somehow. i'd really like to try those maps before i possibly do other wads of different mapsets


Try another mapset like Scythe to see if you still get such problems. And just to be clear, load the files you want with Heretic and DO NOT include the DOOM.wad or DOOM2.wad in your load order.

If you absolutely MUST try it with the original Doom maps first, then you can't just load up the whole Doom wads as is. You need to separate the maps (I don't think a conversion program is needed, so just copy them to a new wad in Slade) before playing. Loading up both Heretic and Doom will cause palette conflicts amongst other things, which explains why the palette looks messed up.
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Re: DOOM to Heretic conversion pack and resource pack [V 1.1

Postby NightFright » Thu Oct 15, 2020 3:36 pm

It would help inexperienced users if there was some kind of extraction program which could separate the Doom maps from the rest of the iwad. Sadly in this case, there is no legal way to provide a ready-to-use compilation with all the maps inside.

I could make one just with Doom ep.1 (shareware) and Sigil since those are the only maps you can get for free in a legal way. It would still be a nice thing to test the pack.
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Re: DOOM to Heretic conversion pack and resource pack [V 1.1

Postby MObreck » Thu Oct 15, 2020 4:46 pm

I went ahead and have uploaded a wad with the shareware maps (episode 1) separated. This can be used as a testing point for anyone having issues:
https://www.sendspace.com/file/u1y3od

As already stated copyright issues prevent me from releasing all the DOOM/DOOM2 stages split into a separate pwad, so this is the best I can do. I know the copyright rules are a bit confusing, being sprites and sound effects are treated like fairgame even though they technically could be considered copyright themselves. But that just seems to be the understanding between the rights holders and the modding community. For whatever reason the official levels are considered a bridge too far.

Sigil.wad seems work unaltered. You'll get a bunch of warning errors in the console and a minor graphical glitch in the episode select menu. But the stages themselves seems to work without issue. That being the case I didn't include them since you can just use Romero's official release.

It is a shame that custom assets are one of the major shortcomings of this mod. Most modern user made levels use custom assets because... why wouldn't they? Its one of the big perks of modding DOOM and one of the major reasons you'd chose GZDoom over the other source ports. So that does hold this mod back quite a bit and short of programming a Skynet style self aware AI there's not much I can do to make the mod able to react to the infinite range of custom textures and objects created for all the modern DOOM stage packs.

At some point I'd like to release a stage pack of user made DOOM2 maps from DOOMWorld (A lot of quality vanilla asset levels created in the old days are hosted there). But that's a matter of gathering a set of decent stages, compiling a list of credits, and making sure of all the authors gave permission for distributing modified versions of their work. So that could take a minute.

In good news this mod got mentioned in the news page of Realm667, recommended by Tormentor667. So that's pretty cool.
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Re: DOOM to Heretic conversion pack and resource pack [V 1.1

Postby MrRumbleRoses » Thu Oct 15, 2020 5:17 pm

so. i tried the whole make a wad file with just the Doom II maps. and i said it couldn't find map01 and such. what does one need or whatever if any besides the maps themselves?
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Re: DOOM to Heretic conversion pack and resource pack [V 1.1

Postby NightFright » Thu Oct 15, 2020 11:03 pm

I isolated each map and called them map01.wad, map02.wad etc. But a wad with all maps inside should work the same since the map names don't change.
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