DOOM to Heretic conversion pack and resource pack [V 1.25]

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Re: [WIP] DOOM to Heretic conversion pack

Postby MObreck » Tue Sep 22, 2020 3:13 pm

Sinael wrote:Looks very interesting.
When will something downloadable to be expected?


Sometime within the next two weeks probably. Still ironing out the DOOM2 conversion aspects. But its getting close.
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Re: [WIP] DOOM to Heretic conversion pack

Postby Craneo » Wed Sep 23, 2020 9:34 pm

I have two questions, will there be a decorate+ACS version that can be played with Zandronum? and what happens if you convert a wad with custom textures? I am really looking up for this project to come out :)
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Re: [WIP] DOOM to Heretic conversion pack

Postby MObreck » Thu Sep 24, 2020 4:37 pm

Craneo wrote:...will there be a decorate+ACS version that can be played with Zandronum?...


Unfortunately no. I used quite a bit of ZScript exclusive coding to create the replacement enemies, as well as some of the conversion effects and the species randomizer. At this point I can't see being able to roll it back to Decorate. Even if it was possible it would be a huge task as well as making the coding far more bloated.

Craneo wrote:...and what happens if you convert a wad with custom textures?...


As long as you list the wad before my conversion files in the load order it should work. However the methods used to add custom textures in most older wads will either cause them to show up in a glitched palette or they will get overwritten by my replacement textures. Not much I can do about that sadly. Textures that show up but in a glitched palette can be manually corrected by converting them to heretic or truecolor palette in an editor like SLADE.

Also naturally my mod has no way to detect and replace custom textures. So if you're using a wad full of sci-fi themed custom textures they will still look sci-fi in the converted map without any manual correction.

NightFright wrote:This looks more and more like a TC with custom maps. Hard to see these are basically retextured Doom maps. Which is meant to be a compliment.
I mean, all this was already possible before. The converter you are using exists since ages, but the difference here is that it's not going to be a plain automated conversion. A lot of manual corrections are involved with extra content thrown in as well, so it's definitely much more interesting.


Yeah, playing through the converted DOOM2 stages it feels quite different from the original game, despite being a bunch of reskinning. Both in its general appearance and how the replacement monsters don't quite behave the same of the DOOM demons they replace. Not to mention having the Heretic inventory system to work with.
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Re: [WIP] DOOM to Heretic conversion pack

Postby MObreck » Thu Sep 24, 2020 8:45 pm

Uploaded more preview videos showing several DOOM2 stages converted using the Top Loader method (No manual conversion, needing to use DM2Conv through DosBox,etc). They the original, unedited stages I moved to a PWAD and let my plugin do all the work.

I am thinking the first public release will be this weekend. All seems to be working well.
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Re: [WIP] DOOM to Heretic conversion pack

Postby NightFright » Fri Sep 25, 2020 4:57 am

Checked out the video with the MAP01+02 conversions. It does not look like a "cheap" conversion at all, more like properly done levels for a Heretic partial conversion back in the 90s which we never got. The new textures and sprites do a really great job there, everything looks quite polished and very "unDOOMish", which is the point in this case.

I tend to repeat myself, but this could really be the first time a Doom-to-Heretic conversion has a realistic chance to actually succeed.
Last edited by NightFright on Sat Sep 26, 2020 1:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [WIP] DOOM to Heretic conversion pack

Postby MObreck » Fri Sep 25, 2020 7:19 pm

I added an option menu that gives the player the ability to toggle off species randomization.

With the randomization on a set of RNG seeds are generated based of the level's sector/linedef/vertex count that randomizes what monster species type replaces each DOOM monster. For example notice on the MAP01/MAP02 preview video that the imps on MAP01 are replaced with Ettins, but Snake Imps on MAP02.

I also included an option that will replace some of the vanilla Heretic enemies with the new monsters I added based on which episode you are playing. For example on Episode 2 (Hell's Maw) the Golems and Saberclaws get replaced with the Ettin types I added.

But anyways expect a public release probably on Sunday.
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Re: DOOM to Heretic conversion pack and resource pack [RELEA

Postby MObreck » Wed Sep 30, 2020 3:10 pm

Alright I've uploaded the first official release. I still need to type up how to do manual conversions, as that has many advantage for modders who want to do a more extensive conversion. But for now I've explained how to use the toploader option (The plug in and play EZ mode option). Have fun :)
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Re: DOOM to Heretic conversion pack and resource pack [RELEA

Postby stainedofmind » Thu Oct 01, 2020 8:08 am

Hey, I've personally been looking for something like this for a long time, and even tried my hand at creating a Heretic to Doom gameplay mod, but my lack of skills caused that to fail miserably. Been playing through Doom 2 (sort of, its a map with the entire game stitched into one giant level) and have really been enjoying it! Once I'm done with Doom 2, I'll probably load up an Oblige map or two next.
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Re: DOOM to Heretic conversion pack and resource pack [RELEA

Postby sir_firebrand » Fri Oct 02, 2020 9:38 am

Can some good soul post a converted version of Evilternity? I'm in linux and didn't managed to get it working.

In my opinion it is a megawad that probably would look/convert beautifully to Heretic.
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Re: DOOM to Heretic conversion pack and resource pack [RELEA

Postby MObreck » Fri Oct 02, 2020 3:22 pm

sir_firebrand wrote:Can some good soul post a converted version of Evilternity? I'm in linux and didn't managed to get it working.

In my opinion it is a megawad that probably would look/convert beautifully to Heretic.


Evilternity uses a ton of custom textures and monsters. My mod can only convert stages that use vanilla DOOM/DOOM2 assets. It would not be able to convert Evilternity.
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Re: DOOM to Heretic conversion pack and resource pack [RELEA

Postby NightFright » Fri Oct 02, 2020 4:06 pm

It'd be just as if you slapped this mod right on top of doom.wad or doom2.wad. It wouldn't work. The palette of the games alone would screw up everything. One would have to extract the maps manually and load only those (you would still need some mapinfo file from Doom to play the maps in episodic order since Heretic's file is different).

Pwads that mostly just contain maps should be fine. I have tried Doom's E1M1 so far and it's amusing. However, I guess it'll be hard to create a fire-and-forget solution for everything which can also be handled by inexperienced users.

Actually I am currently playing Heretic maps in Doom 2 with some custom conversion a Russian guy did 15 years ago. Everything retextured and with Doom monsters. It works, but it ain't pretty. Some while ago, someone also announced a converter for Heretic maps to use them in Doom, but I guess things died down in the meantime. It looked promising.
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Re: DOOM to Heretic conversion pack and resource pack [RELEA

Postby bimshwel » Fri Oct 02, 2020 11:28 pm

I like the idea of this, since Heretic itself has a lot of flashy colorful and creaturey stuff that I appreciate and which more serious games lack, but can often feel unbalanced, since it has mostly slower, weaker monsters and weapons compared to doom, so a player can spend lots of time taking down beasts that aren't much of a threat.
However, looking at the videos, I see heaps of monsters that aren't actually in heretic but apart from golems, few that are. Particularly gargoyles, the most prevalent creature in regular heretic (and one of my favorite from any video game) I didn't see in there once, even though without fireballs and with charge damage added they are essentially lost souls, though admittedly I only saw the inmost dens one all the way through. I do intend to try this later.

I like the crossbow thugs since they fill a niche and look like they belong there, some others less so. The succubuses at least need a few more varied death grunts, I think, since they seem to show up rather often and only take a few hits.
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Re: DOOM to Heretic conversion pack and resource pack [RELEA

Postby NightFright » Tue Oct 06, 2020 9:24 am

One problem I found: When leaving a secret level in Doom (e.g. E1M9), it takes you to the wrong next regular map after that. This is happening since Heretic secret exits are not located in the same levels as in original Doom (e.g.: First Doom secret exit is in E1M3, in Heretic it's E1M6). I guess you would have to add map definitions for the secret levels with corrected "next=" entries, like so:

Code: Select allExpand view
map E1M9 lookup "HHUSTR_E1M9"
{
   next = "E1M4"
   secretnext = "E1M4"
   sky1 = "SKY1"
   cluster = 1
   music = "MUS_E1M9"
}
map E2M9 lookup "HHUSTR_E2M9"
{
   next = "E2M6"
   secretnext = "E2M6"
   sky1 = "SKY2"
   cluster = 2
   music = "MUS_E2M9"
}
map E3M9 lookup "HHUSTR_E3M9"
{
   next = "E3M7"
   secretnext = "E3M7"
   sky1 = "SKY3"
   cluster = 3
   music = "MUS_E2M6"
}
map E4M9 lookup "HHUSTR_E4M9"
{
   next = "E4M3"
   secretnext = "E4M3"
   sky1 = "SKY1"
   cluster = 4
   music = "MUS_E1M9"
}

Also it would be nice if Doom levels kept their original names instead of assuming the ones from Heretic, but for that you would probably have to add all Doom levels to the MAPINFO file with the correct lookup strings.

Other than that, I am currently playing through the Doom shareware episode and it's a blast. Textures fit, you don't notice it's converted - placements seem to be hand-made. Custom sprites are spot-on. I also appreciate that the rather weak Heretic weapons are far more efficient here. The crossbow turns into a true shotgun equivalent with equal firepower at last!

Maybe you could try to turn this into a single-file solution for even easier handling, if it's possible. You can have more than one mapinfo file inside a pack by using include, like this (for example):

Code: Select allExpand view
include mapinfo/base.txt
include mapinfo/topload.txt

SNDINFO lumps are cumulative, so you could both together as sndinfo.prt1 and sndinfo.prt2, for example (if I am not mistaken). I have made a merged test build for myself and it seems to work fine with just one file. That one would be enough for the toploader method, then. Converted stages should only use hereticmtobase.pk3. In both cases you would only need a single file (but different ones).
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Re: DOOM to Heretic conversion pack and resource pack [RELEA

Postby MObreck » Tue Oct 06, 2020 5:54 pm

NightFright wrote: -snip-


I went ahead and pasted all the DOOM1 style stage info into the TopLoader wad. I already had it set up for a personal wad. Just have to do some testing to make sure I pasted it correctly.

HereticMTOBase.pk3 contains all the custom artwork and scripting assets. Thus it is always required, so a single file option for the toploader method is not possible. Outside of duplicating those massive amount of assets into the toploader wad, which would be redundant and just increase the odds of mistakes being made in future updates.
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Re: DOOM to Heretic conversion pack and resource pack [RELEA

Postby CBM » Tue Oct 06, 2020 8:48 pm

Very cool

I love that so Many talented modders are making Stuff for doom, heretic, Hexen, strife etc...
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