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Re: [Release] Touhou Doom - Episodes I-III

PostPosted: Sun Nov 05, 2017 7:38 pm
by Untitled
I can't believe I'm saying this, but THERE'S AN EPISODE 3E

Changelog:
-Hakkero Gun uses new sprites.
-Utsuho's fight made slightly easier; in particular, Noncards 2, 3, and 4.
-Marisa was broken and is now fixed. At least it was only on Normal mode this time!

Re: [Release] Touhou Doom - Episodes I-III

PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 10:15 am
by DeShawnChampion
While playing this mod, I have encountered a bug with the boss battle with Flandre.
Occasionally after spell breaking Taboo "Kagome, Kagome" the green bullets would remain on the stage.

Normal difficulty
Zandronum 3.0 alpha

Re: [Release] Touhou Doom - Episodes I-III

PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 2:48 am
by InfernalGrape
Untitled wrote:
leodoom85 wrote:Hey, Untitled. Is it possible to add a scoring system based on some factors like kills and time or something like that?

From somewhere else, I'll quote myself here:
I wrote:Ah, yes, scoring - it's a cool idea in theory!
In practice, this is an absolutely awful engine to do it in, due to the nature of how little control I have over said engine - to do a proper scoring system, I need to make point items (not hard) that have variable scoring properties based on various game conditions (hard), spellcard bonuses for not getting hit during various boss attacks (harder), to highly variable scoring mechanics that give incentive to make riskier plays (ahahahahahahaha nope).


Too bad! Is it really that bad? I hoped you can do Cave-like scoring on this engine somehow, with chaining and multiply!

Re: [Release] Touhou Doom - Episodes I-III

PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 2:24 pm
by Untitled
DeShawnChampion wrote:While playing this mod, I have encountered a bug with the boss battle with Flandre.
Occasionally after spell breaking Taboo "Kagome, Kagome" the green bullets would remain on the stage.

Normal difficulty
Zandronum 3.0 alpha


All of them, or some of them? If it's ALL of them, then it's a serious problem, if it's only some of them then there's not all that much I can do (since for the most part they're killed, but sometimes the spawn doesn't kill them before the next couple spawn), unless it turns out SpawnProjectile is broken.

I've seen a couple that survive though, I that happens sometimes.

InfernalGrape wrote:
Untitled wrote:
leodoom85 wrote:Hey, Untitled. Is it possible to add a scoring system based on some factors like kills and time or something like that?

From somewhere else, I'll quote myself here:
I wrote:Ah, yes, scoring - it's a cool idea in theory!
In practice, this is an absolutely awful engine to do it in, due to the nature of how little control I have over said engine - to do a proper scoring system, I need to make point items (not hard) that have variable scoring properties based on various game conditions (hard), spellcard bonuses for not getting hit during various boss attacks (harder), to highly variable scoring mechanics that give incentive to make riskier plays (ahahahahahahaha nope).


Too bad! Is it really that bad? I hoped you can do Cave-like scoring on this engine somehow, with chaining and multiply!


CAVE scoring and Touhou scoring are fairly different though, and as one could guess from the name of the mod, I am making it more touhou-like first.

The issue is Touhou scoring relies primarily 3 things:
1. Grazing - getting close to bullets without getting hit.
2. Spellcard Bonuses (as in you get points for not getting hit during spellcards)
3. Point items that increase in value the higher on the screen you collect them

So, in order:
1. This is definitely not possible.
2. I think this is doable, honestly - I'm not sure how, but I think it's doable
3. While the item itself is trivial, the issue is we're not even operating on a rectangular screen; only one stage is *that* rectangular (not saying which, it's a spoiler)

Re: [Release] Touhou Doom - Episodes I-III

PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 2:15 pm
by DeShawnChampion
Approximately 70 to 80 percent of the green bullets remain on the stage.
A big concern is that they still damage you when touching them and take up the screen.

EDIT:

Upon further investigation, it turns out to be a problem on my end.

Spoiler:


This bug occurs on my laptop and not my desktop.

Re: [Release] Touhou Doom - Episodes I-III

PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 6:32 pm
by Untitled
DeShawnChampion wrote:Approximately 70 to 80 percent of the green bullets remain on the stage.
A big concern is that they still damage you when touching them and take up the screen.


Damn, I don't know what to say - I can't replicate this at all; I just killed the spellcard three times in a row, and in all three shots 100% of the bullets cleared.

Tested on the Zandronum 3.0 stable release.

Re: [Release] Touhou Doom - Episodes I-III

PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 7:23 am
by GeneralDelphox
So do you have any plans for adding any additional touhou themed weapons for Episode IV?

Re: [Release] Touhou Doom - Episodes I-III

PostPosted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 2:58 pm
by muzzdiez
I've just completed the second episode.
I've seen that much of first episode is really like Dusted's version, so I hold it until I complete episodes 2 and 3.
And this second episode was excellent thing. Touhou mechanic of weapons, availability of spellcards to player, power items and sequential spell-card boss attacks are purely fantastic and are what I really wanted to appear in Touhou Doom since I played Dusted's version.

At first I was a bit disappointed by lack of Dusted's weapons like those from Heretic and Hexen (looking at first episode), but second episode changed this mechanic to something even more enchanting.

So, at least based on my opinion on second episode, I may conclude: it's purely fantastic.

But, nothing is ideal.
I may note, if you try to make Touhou Doom look more like Touhou, then what's really need is "Enemy" indicator (you often can't see a boss through waves of her danmaku) and some kind of boss health bars and number of spellcards remaining.
In addition, points mechanic and rewards is completely absent for now, as I see? And power items do not matter at all if you already reached 400?
I think it will be good idea to think about it. Maybe, add point items and, when player collects some amount, he may be rewarded with an extra spell card, or raising of maximum health value (kind of 'extend') - it will be extremely useful in sequential boss battles without rest like those with Orin-Okuu-Aya. And, of course, if player reached 400 power, then power items should count as point ones. Spell card bonuses would also be interesting idea: for example, if player cleared an enemy's spell card without using his own spell cards, then boss may drop a bunch of point items if points system is to be implemented, or some valueable items, like soul/megaspheres, instead, if not; otherwise she will drop nothing. Okuu battle seems to be significantly easier if you collect many spell cards, and then release them onto her till her last spell card, to save health vitally required to stand against this fire from back walls; and such tactic has no drawbacks (if there is no reward of not using spell cards), but significantly changes the balance.
According to other touhou-ish things, I may mention grazing, variable point value, and another minor stuff, but I think it does not worth it, as implementing and using such mechanic in DOOM appears to be very hard (especially grazing, as you don't see your hitbox), but it gives no major fun to playing process.

Speaking of hitboxes specifically, hitboxes of player and boss seems to be remained like in original DOOM, and it really annoys when you miss when shooting just near a boss, or when you actually can't pass through some curtains of bullets which look dodgeable (if you have in mind a relation between generic bullet size and hitbox size). Why did I say it, that's because if you aim on 'maximum Touhou', then shrinking hitbox of player and expanding bosses' one may be considered justified.

But, maybe 'maximum Touhou' is not the correct aim: the farther I progressed, the more game mechanic changed to touhou-styled boss battles with nothing more, and, this way, nothing from DOOM (obviously, except textures, monsters, etc, but not a game style). In addition, most of battles are performed on arenas without any cover; but hey, it's not Touhou, it's still DOOM. Here you can't see projectiles coming from side and from behind of you, but you have more ability to move and cover instead of simply 'dodging the undodgeable' on a fixed playscreen.
My most remembered battle from Dusted's Touhou Doom was the one with Sakuya, when I ran all over the SDM and tried to catch her from the corner. It was fun! Speaking of your Touhou Doom, Komachi and Suika are excellent examples. Youmu and Yuyuko battle may be one not within a 'wooden box', but on wide plains of Hakugyokurou with sakura trees; Orin may be, like real cat, hiding near obstacles and jumping out of the corner spreading out massive danmaku waves if the battle occured not on the platform near the reactor door, but in some kind of lava-filled caves of deepest levels of Hell of Blazing Fires (as where Orin can be met in Dusted's version).

(Well, that's definitely not the directions of what you have to do, and not even a suggestions; how it is done for now is really nice, but if it can be nicer, that's my opinion on how.)

And yes.
Spoiler:


(But, I may suppose that you eliminated this 'shoot and hide' principle for several bosses intentionally; so OK then.)

Summarizing: I definitely don't regret playing this. It is really nice, and I would try to complete episode 3, and then episode 1 ASAP. I could not imagine anybody can add something to Touhou Doom by Dusted, but you did it. Great work.
P.S. And waiting for episode four to be ready!

Re: [Release] Touhou Doom - Episodes I-III

PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2017 6:46 pm
by Twitchy2019
Hey, I wanted to ask, since you seem to be taking into account the lore established by Doom (2016), I have to ask two questions.

1. On the first episode, I think towards the end fight, the final boss character made mention of the Doom Marine already receiving help from some character. Was this character the Seraphim mentioned in the Doom Codex entries for 2016?

2. At the end of all of this, is your version gonna feature the Doom Marine getting his Praetor Suit as a reward for helping this dimension?

Re: [Release] Touhou Doom - Episodes I-III

PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2017 11:57 pm
by Untitled
Holy crap, huge post.
GeneralDelphox wrote:So do you have any plans for adding any additional touhou themed weapons for Episode IV?
Read the rest of the thread; there's a post somewhere that iterates my points of why it's probably not going to happen.
warman2012 wrote:Hey, I wanted to ask, since you seem to be taking into account the lore established by Doom (2016), I have to ask two questions.
1. On the first episode, I think towards the end fight, the final boss character made mention of the Doom Marine already receiving help from some character. Was this character the Seraphim mentioned in the Doom Codex entries for 2016?
Play Episode II. If you haven't figured it out, play Episode III's extra stage - at least, if you can actually get to the boss of that stage.
warman2012 wrote:2. At the end of all of this, is your version gonna feature the Doom Marine getting his Praetor Suit as a reward for helping this dimension?
I mean, I've deliberately left it somewhat ambiguous to what parts of the Doom (2016) are actually canon, but you sort of already aquire the Praetor Suit in Doom 2016...?

(I haven't really thought about Doom side of the lore very much. The Touhou side, on the other hand...)
muzzdiez wrote:I've just completed the second episode.
I've seen that much of first episode is really like Dusted's version, so I hold it until I complete episodes 2 and 3.
And this second episode was excellent thing. Touhou mechanic of weapons, availability of spellcards to player, power items and sequential spell-card boss attacks are purely fantastic and are what I really wanted to appear in Touhou Doom since I played Dusted's version.

At first I was a bit disappointed by lack of Dusted's weapons like those from Heretic and Hexen (looking at first episode), but second episode changed this mechanic to something even more enchanting.

So, at least based on my opinion on second episode, I may conclude: it's purely fantastic.

The First Episode is highly modified once you get past the first map; I'm planning to replace it with my own map when Episode IV releases - though it's worth noting I don't really like Heretic and Hexen's weaponset very much.
muzzdiez wrote:But, nothing is ideal.
I may note, if you try to make Touhou Doom look more like Touhou, then what's really need is "Enemy" indicator (you often can't see a boss through waves of her danmaku) and some kind of boss health bars and number of spellcards remaining.
In addition, points mechanic and rewards is completely absent for now, as I see? And power items do not matter at all if you already reached 400?
I think it will be good idea to think about it. Maybe, add point items and, when player collects some amount, he may be rewarded with an extra spell card, or raising of maximum health value (kind of 'extend') - it will be extremely useful in sequential boss battles without rest like those with Orin-Okuu-Aya. And, of course, if player reached 400 power, then power items should count as point ones. Spell card bonuses would also be interesting idea: for example, if player cleared an enemy's spell card without using his own spell cards, then boss may drop a bunch of point items if points system is to be implemented, or some valueable items, like soul/megaspheres, instead, if not; otherwise she will drop nothing. Okuu battle seems to be significantly easier if you collect many spell cards, and then release them onto her till her last spell card, to save health vitally required to stand against this fire from back walls; and such tactic has no drawbacks (if there is no reward of not using spell cards), but significantly changes the balance.
According to other touhou-ish things, I may mention grazing, variable point value, and another minor stuff, but I think it does not worth it, as implementing and using such mechanic in DOOM appears to be very hard (especially grazing, as you don't see your hitbox), but it gives no major fun to playing process.
So, a few things to note:
-First off, you're right - I totally should implement an Enemy marker. I wonder how I could do that with DECORATE/ACS...I'm better at smashing code until a pattern works than I am at coming up with things like this.
-The points are absent because I don't really have a scoring system - point items are somewhat pointless until PIV is implemented, and PIV can't really be implemented because graze can't be implemented.
-If I ever implement scoring, then yeah, power items will start acting like point items - though it's worth noting that starting at Stage 4, [p] blocks stop dropping because they aren't needed anymore.
-Player spellcards are kind of my personal 'get one impossible attack free' mechanic - basically, Episode II has enough patterns that are kind of insane, and some of them are just obtuse enough to dodge I didn't like making people learning to dodge all of them. With that in mind, Okuu's final attack is 100% dodgeable; the secret is to use your minimap - if you complete Episode I, a tipbox will tell you this.
muzzdiez wrote:Speaking of hitboxes specifically, hitboxes of player and boss seems to be remained like in original DOOM, and it really annoys when you miss when shooting just near a boss, or when you actually can't pass through some curtains of bullets which look dodgeable (if you have in mind a relation between generic bullet size and hitbox size). Why did I say it, that's because if you aim on 'maximum Touhou', then shrinking hitbox of player and expanding bosses' one may be considered justified.
It's worth noting that the player class hasn't actually been modified in any sense - the player is still the base Doom Marine. Most bullets typically have a smaller hitbox than they appear - this is part of why the Danmaku demons are actually harder than they appear - not only do they do more damage (instead of like a base 10 for near-everything)[/quote]You are right in that I should expand the boss hitboxes; though it's worth noting that I wanted it to be slightly difficult to hit them with all 4 needle streams from the amulet gun. Use the Hakurei Amulets if you have difficulty hitting; all six weapons have their uses.
muzzdiez wrote:But, maybe 'maximum Touhou' is not the correct aim: the farther I progressed, the more game mechanic changed to touhou-styled boss battles with nothing more, and, this way, nothing from DOOM (obviously, except textures, monsters, etc, but not a game style). In addition, most of battles are performed on arenas without any cover; but hey, it's not Touhou, it's still DOOM. Here you can't see projectiles coming from side and from behind of you, but you have more ability to move and cover instead of simply 'dodging the undodgeable' on a fixed playscreen.
It's designed to start more Doom-like in earlier maps and get progressively more Touhou like until peaking at MAP20 (extra stage of Episode III, and I am not spoiling that), though it's worth noting that most patterns are consistent enough that you can dodge things you can't see once you get used to the movement - and this skill is required to play on Hard and Lunatic. Patterns are the theme here, there is surprisingly little that is actually just reaction dodging - Okuu is a rather flashy example of this. I can consistently beat every boss in this game, on Lunatic.
muzzdiez wrote:My most remembered battle from Dusted's Touhou Doom was the one with Sakuya, when I ran all over the SDM and tried to catch her from the corner. It was fun! Speaking of your Touhou Doom, Komachi and Suika are excellent examples. Youmu and Yuyuko battle may be one not within a 'wooden box', but on wide plains of Hakugyokurou with sakura trees; Orin may be, like real cat, hiding near obstacles and jumping out of the corner spreading out massive danmaku waves if the battle occured not on the platform near the reactor door, but in some kind of lava-filled caves of deepest levels of Hell of Blazing Fires (as where Orin can be met in Dusted's version).

Try fighting Sakuya in MAP06, it's intense, though very little cover - and there's a reason for it. In general, boss arenas tend to be very, very flat and open for two reasons:
1. Balance. It's very very difficult to balance a fight for both with and without cover. Komachi's fight is open, but it has no cover - and trying to run away to where there is cover results in something interesting happening, though I won't say what. It's not good for your living, though. Suika gets away because she's very random. Sakuya's hall used to have pillars, but I removed them (they lower now) because her AI did not interact well with them. In general, if sufficient cover exists, the fight needs to be somewhat re-balanced and re-choreographed - there's very much a 'dance', especially on Lunatic, and changing the arena means I have to re-choreograph the dodging dance. This is somewhat due to the fact that I generally design the fight first and then I design the boss arena around the already finished Fight. Though you might like Alice's fight in Episode III; though be warned running is not actually recommended.
2. Some spellcards have incredibly specific patterns that are intended to be dodged in one very particular way - All four of Orin's spellcards are an excellent example of it. Any sort of terrain variation can make these patterns break. Patchouli and Sakuya were both particularly bad examples. Remilia has a...unique strategy against it.
As a side note, The square you fight Youmu and Yuyuko in is supposed to be the Hakugyokorou Rock Garden, a stage depicted in Touhou 7.5 and 10.5. I'm not very good at mapping (i.e. I can't actually design Sakura trees in Doom builder)
muzzdiez wrote:(Well, that's definitely not the directions of what you have to do, and not even a suggestions; how it is done for now is really nice, but if it can be nicer, that's my opinion on how.)
Nah, I like getting feedback on my mod. I like talking about things.
muzzdiez wrote:-Koishi snip-
heheheheheheheheheheheheheheh. Please spoiler that, I would like people to not know what's going to happen to them in that fight. Again, I'm not a good mapper - also, all four arena changes are 1: The starting arena, and 2: joke map, 3: another joke map, 4: setup room for the timeout card. And also 5, the ending room, but I don't really count that - it's not really part of the fight. I don't really have any really legit arena changes. Read the tipboxes if you are lost.
muzzdiez wrote:(But, I may suppose that you eliminated this 'shoot and hide' principle for several bosses intentionally; so OK then.)
The issue is that 'shoot and hide' very much contrasts as a gameplay style to what a lot of the boss fights revolve around - plus it's very easy to invent new ways to dodge bullets on an open field, it's very hard to invent new ways to dodge attacks when you are playing cover games - not to say that cover games are inherently bad; but it's not the type of game Touhou Doom generally is during stages.
muzzdiez wrote:Summarizing: I definitely don't regret playing this. It is really nice, and I would try to complete episode 3, and then episode 1 ASAP. I could not imagine anybody can add something to Touhou Doom by Dusted, but you did it. Great work.
P.S. And waiting for episode four to be ready!
I recommend starting with Episode 1. Also, Episode 3 is...something, alright. I'm honestly very happy with how it turned out...you'll see what I mean. And yeah, Episode IV is going to take a while - I don't want to rush it.

Fun Fact: Touhou Doom: Untitled Edition started because I was disappointed with Dusted's version of Touhou Doom - it started as a concept for "could I make the boss fights more fun", which was then followed by "can I choose better weapons", followed by "can I make literally everything else better".

Re: [Release] Touhou Doom - Episodes I-III

PostPosted: Sat Nov 25, 2017 7:09 am
by Twitchy2019
Untitled wrote:
I mean, I've deliberately left it somewhat ambiguous to what parts of the Doom (2016) are actually canon, but you sort of already acquire the Praetor Suit in Doom 2016...

The doom marine already had the suit when he was sealed in that coffin at the beginning of the game, the demons had just stripped him of the suit when he was captured. I was just seeing if maybe in your version of it the seraphim could be one of these youkai given their powers and the whole magic aspect of the place. That idea would make this story seem more interesting given you have already decided to include some of the lore already. That was one of the reasons I trudged through this nightmare of a mod. :D

Also I noticed on youtube that this mod might have had some revisions done to it over the years or perhaps multiple versions by different people exist. Were there different versions of the maps and story done by you or was that other people?

Re: [Release] Touhou Doom - Episodes I-III

PostPosted: Sat Nov 25, 2017 12:08 pm
by Untitled
Okay, since some people are actually interested in the history of Touhou Doom (and with the whole multiple people thing?), I think some clarification is in order to explain just what happened. It's somewhat important, given that it's the reason this exists.
Spoiler: The full story

I don't talk about it much because I am trying to distance myself from the original work - I want this to be something better than that.

Re: [Release] Touhou Doom - Episodes I-III

PostPosted: Sat Nov 25, 2017 10:15 pm
by muzzdiez
I've nearly completed the whole this Touhou Doom, but for now, on Easy. But I still was not able to overcome Extra of Episode III with that projection (such a projection is even more hard as both DOOM and Touhou), and achieved a deadlock on Episode I.
Spoiler:

Yes, it really differs significantly from Dusted's version, and I may say, if his version is more for DOOMers, this one is for Touhou players. Maybe it's like "Touhou Doom" and "Touhou Doom 2" (as these mods differ from each other not less as DOOM differs from DOOM II).

So, after my first impression is gone, I would like to say that there is some bugs.
First one that may be noticed sometimes, is that if you use spell card while boss does the same, names of spell cards overlap each other. Maybe it will be ok to move player's spell card name down a bit, or make it appear near HUD, as in Touhou games?
The second one is unbalanced health progression. While going through levels, sometimes I have to collect soulspheres and megaspheres even on 200/200 health/armor (Suika's stage is typical example: I've lost about 50-100 health at all on this level, but, including secrets, there is 500 health in addition to medikits, stimpacks and berserk pack). So, player does not get rewarded for saving his health: as far as I remember, in most Touhou games, you may collect up to 8 lives that may correspond to 800 health, or even 1600 if we consider 200 as normal 'life'; but here, player progresses to boss with 200 health (as most of stages contain megaspheres at start point) independently of what he done before. And, in comparison to Touhou, where you may die with nearly equal probability either in normal stage, or in midboss/boss fight, here you are nearly 'easywalking' the whole stage and then suffer greatly from boss.
And the third, major one: looks like first episode on Easy is impassable, as when Remilia denies to fight me (in consistency with EoSD on Easy mode), she transfers me to basement without setting off PROP_FROZEN property. So i can't do anything more: even with IDCLIP I can only stay on initial place and nothing more.

Untitled wrote:The First Episode is highly modified once you get past the first map
Yes, I did notice this. Library is really impressive, and battle with Patchouli was a lot more interesting for me than in Dusted's version (but Sakuya's one was not, but it's just my opinion).
Untitled wrote:point items are somewhat pointless until PIV is implemented, and PIV can't really be implemented because graze can't be implemented.
But why grazing is vitally needed for PIV? You may just (as first approach, at least) make points the same value, and then implement some mechanic like dropping its value with time (for example: they spawn initially with 1000 points each, lose 10% every 3 seconds, and after 30 seconds despawn). Do you REALLY need this mechanic be identical to Touhou?
Also, about grazing: I went to learning ACS scripting and DECORATE, so I wonder, is it possible to implement grazing by redefining every projectile as a compound of two projectiles, one is standard, and second, invisible, is a bit bigger, and when hitting player, the last one does not hurt him, but instead gives him an increase in graze value.
Untitled wrote:starting at Stage 4, blocks stop dropping because they aren't needed anymore.
In that case, it is likely a subject to fix, so power items would continue dropping at any stage.
Untitled wrote:the secret is to use your minimap - if you complete Episode I, a tipbox will tell you this.
But isn't it become Touhou itself then? You'll see this from top and move like in Touhou, not like in DOOM.
Untitled wrote:Use the Hakurei Amulets if you have difficulty hitting; all six weapons have their uses.
Interestingly, I found that weapons can change their fire modes while fighting with Sakuya - and it was nearly the end of last episode I tried; I've done episodes II and III with first fire modes of both weapons.
Looks like I watched Icarus's review inattentively as I did not notice this.
Maybe you consider making these weapons not like 3-in-one, but different ones, or do some clear notices that they can fire in alternative modes? (Or if they exist already, it seems to be my fault that I didn't noticed them).
(Also I may note that their sprites does not seem like really 'magical' weapons: yes, Yukari said that it's experimental thingies, but a chaingun firing amulets... oh.)
Untitled wrote:I can consistently beat every boss in this game, on Lunatic.
I would very appreciate if you decide to record some kind of full-run of your Touhou Doom, like that Dusted's Lunatic run of his own Touhou Doom I've seen many months ago.
Untitled wrote:Komachi's fight is open, but it has no cover
It is enough cover if she's walking along the shore for you, and on about her second or third spell card she is too far from her original position so you may hide from her 'laser' attacks near the rocks.
Untitled wrote:trying to run away to where there is cover results in something interesting happening
Yes, I noted this when I tried to run away too early. =)
Untitled wrote:Though you might like Alice's fight in Episode III; though be warned running is not actually recommended.
Yes, Alice and Marisa were the most interesting for me from the whole game, as it was really something ehough touhouish and DOOMy like I ever wished. Looks like I like DOOM fighting style more than Touhou one; so it's not an objection to you, it's just my own expectations, and you obviously can't fully satisfy everybody.
Untitled wrote:All four of Orin's spellcards are an excellent example of it.
Yep, I remember that one with sinusoidal snakes of projectiles, so you should strafe left and right in VERY timed manner, and single mistake may cost you 10 or 20 of health that may be vital on that phase of battle.
Untitled wrote:I can't actually design Sakura trees in Doom builder
Isn't it a method to get something like TRE1 and TRE2 sprites from DOOM II and add them white-pink fog where blossoms are supposed to be?
Untitled wrote:Please spoiler that, I would like people to not know what's going to happen to them in that fight.
Ok, done. (As for now, this post disappeared and looks like in the premoderation state again; I surely don't know why edited posts need premoderation, but it is so).

By the way, this Touhou Doom motivated me to do some kind of what I would like to see there - that's boss health/spell card meter. I implemented it just for MAP01 (for Rumia midboss and Rumia boss), so, if you accept contributions and it does not conflict with your idea how Touhou Doom should be, maybe you consider integrating this into your wad (and expand to other levels)? Feel free to edit and improve this as you wish and do whatever you like then. I've used this as a reference, and then added such stuff as spellcard counter, scripts to initiate and destroy it, name display, etc.
Example wad with these alterations is here, and you may see a result here
To use this, you should:
- assign Tag to your actor with a name you wish to see over the health bar;
- either call Thing_ChangeTID(0,some_thing_id) at start of 'See' boss state, or assign thing id to boss thing in THINGS lump of a map (and assign it to each new boss thing for every attack of her);
- call ACS_NamedExecute("BHI_BossStartAttack",0,same_thing_id_as_assigned_in_previous_step,number_of_spellcards_remaining,true_if_it_is_spell_card_otherwise_false) at boss's 'See' state;
- call ACS_NamedTerminate("BHI_BossStartAttack",0) and ACS_NamedExecute("BHI_BossStopAttack",0) at 'Death' boss state.
For example of usage of this you may see my DECORATE lump. It redefines Rumia instances to 'HB' (stands for 'health bar') ones (if you move this code to your actors, no redefinition would be needed then). There are also some code to decide how many spell cards remaining based on skill level.
And, TOUHOU2 lump consists of ACS scripts that do main stuff - there is one looping script which shows indicators if boss battle is active, two scripts to start or stop showing indicator, and another one to determine skill level (in is important when it has to be decided how much spell cards remaining).
(lol, I even can't believe that I did it in about a day without any knowledge about DECORATE/ACS before, but this is so.)
If you're not agree to add this to your wad, I hope you will not be against an option that, after adding every boss to it, it become some kind of addon to your Touhou Doom?

Re: [Release] Touhou Doom - Episodes I-III

PostPosted: Sun Nov 26, 2017 2:10 pm
by Untitled
muzzdiez wrote:I've nearly completed the whole this Touhou Doom, but for now, on Easy. But I still was not able to overcome Extra of Episode III with that projection (such a projection is even more hard as both DOOM and Touhou), and achieved a deadlock on Episode I.
Spoiler:
HEH. And yeah, the Extra Stages are incredibly difficult. It's why they're optional.
So, after my first impression is gone, I would like to say that there is some bugs.
First one that may be noticed sometimes, is that if you use spell card while boss does the same, names of spell cards overlap each other. Maybe it will be ok to move player's spell card name down a bit, or make it appear near HUD, as in Touhou games?
Fudge. This is what happens when you never use spell cards in testing.
muzzdiez wrote:The second one is unbalanced health progression. While going through levels, sometimes I have to collect soulspheres and megaspheres even on 200/200 health/armor (Suika's stage is typical example: I've lost about 50-100 health at all on this level, but, including secrets, there is 500 health in addition to medikits, stimpacks and berserk pack). So, player does not get rewarded for saving his health: as far as I remember, in most Touhou games, you may collect up to 8 lives that may correspond to 800 health, or even 1600 if we consider 200 as normal 'life'; but here, player progresses to boss with 200 health (as most of stages contain megaspheres at start point) independently of what he done before. And, in comparison to Touhou, where you may die with nearly equal probability either in normal stage, or in midboss/boss fight, here you are nearly 'easywalking' the whole stage and then suffer greatly from boss.
The game autosaves at each boss fight (since they're the bulk of the difficulty), and I didn't want people to get screwed over at a boss because they didn't have enough health walking into said boss. With that in mind, Suika's stage is actually one of the hardest stages as soon as you up the difficulty to Lunatic - that's what the health counts are balanced around. With that in mind, the two secret soulspheres probably don't need to be there - I didn't know what else to put in the secrets.
muzzdiez wrote:And the third, major one: looks like first episode on Easy is impassable, as when Remilia denies to fight me (in consistency with EoSD on Easy mode), she transfers me to basement without setting off PROP_FROZEN property. So i can't do anything more: even with IDCLIP I can only stay on initial place and nothing more.
FUDGE, shows you how much I test the easier difficulties (as in I don't).
muzzdiez wrote:But why grazing is vitally needed for PIV? You may just (as first approach, at least) make points the same value, and then implement some mechanic like dropping its value with time (for example: they spawn initially with 1000 points each, lose 10% every 3 seconds, and after 30 seconds despawn). Do you REALLY need this mechanic be identical to Touhou?
Also, about grazing: I went to learning ACS scripting and DECORATE, so I wonder, is it possible to implement grazing by redefining every projectile as a compound of two projectiles, one is standard, and second, invisible, is a bit bigger, and when hitting player, the last one does not hurt him, but instead gives him an increase in graze value.
First point: fair enough. I guess the issue with collecting items is that having to go around collecting items detracts from the otherwise very fast pace that Touhou Doom generally holds. It's why I ditch [p] blocks the instant I can, I don't like having to go around collecting things - especially in the stages where I timed the stages with the music.
Second point: I've actually considered that - it's just so utterly impractical that I decided against it - it's seriously incredibly silly and way more effort than it's worth.
muzzdiez wrote:But isn't it become Touhou itself then? You'll see this from top and move like in Touhou, not like in DOOM.
Somewhat? I was never able to come up with variants on some of the patterns that didn't inevitably have bullets coming from behind you. This is most obvious in Remilia's fight. Because of this, I had to come up with a compensation method to make it so it was possible to dodge bullets not entirely in your view.
muzzdiez wrote:Interestingly, I found that weapons can change their fire modes while fighting with Sakuya - and it was nearly the end of last episode I tried; I've done episodes II and III with first fire modes of both weapons.
Looks like I watched Icarus's review inattentively as I did not notice this.
Maybe you consider making these weapons not like 3-in-one, but different ones, or do some clear notices that they can fire in alternative modes? (Or if they exist already, it seems to be my fault that I didn't noticed them).
Yeah, I'll add a tipbox - I'm used to instinctively pressing alt-fire and primary-fire both to see what happens, because alt-fires are in everything nowadays.
muzzdiez wrote:(Also I may note that their sprites does not seem like really 'magical' weapons: yes, Yukari said that it's experimental thingies, but a chaingun firing amulets... oh.)
I have no spriting ability. I'm looking into...something that might give a better sprite for the minigun, but at this point I'm just using whatever is available.
muzzdiez wrote:I would very appreciate if you decide to record some kind of full-run of your Touhou Doom, like that Dusted's Lunatic run of his own Touhou Doom I've seen many months ago.
I should. You got any recommendations for streaming software?
muzzdiez wrote:Yes, Alice and Marisa were the most interesting for me from the whole game, as it was really something ehough touhouish and DOOMy like I ever wished. Looks like I like DOOM fighting style more than Touhou one; so it's not an objection to you, it's just my own expectations, and you obviously can't fully satisfy everybody.
Marisa's fight in particular, I had been planning since I began Episode II - I knew exactly how I wanted that fight to play out, and the choreography, while perhaps the most unforgiving, was so smooth. I had a lot of fun designing that fight, and it shows. The alice battle was somewhat tacked on, but then I realized it was actually really fun.
muzzdiez wrote:-Health bar snip-
You would not be the first person to make a relatively anonymous contribution. I'll consider adding it, though not any time soon. Episode IV is not happening any time close to soon.

Re: [Release] Touhou Doom - Episodes I-III

PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2017 3:32 pm
by GeneralDelphox
Ah... Well I understand. Has anyone ever noticed MAP15 being a performance hog on the latest version of the mod?