Rise Of The Wool Ball :3 (v1.3 + Soundtrack)

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Re: Rise Of The Wool Ball :3 (v1.1 released)

Postby SanyaWaffles » Sat Jun 10, 2017 1:31 am

Rachael wrote:No one gave you or Scuba Steve trouble because everything just worked. You didn't *have* to run someone else's executable - which you don't know the source, you don't know what's compiled into it, etc. This is a community that is very paranoid of executables that come from any random source - and you have to understand, that is with VERY good reason. The Doom community as a whole is no stranger to malware - even from sources we thought we could trust, there have been past examples where people, even from official sources, have distributed executables that deleted doom2.wad, DDoS'd ZDaemon servers, etc. I'm not saying that the author here would do that - I would say, you just can't be too careful in this setting.


I don't think MSPaintR0cks honestly knew that Doom has such a dubious history with executables. Even I keep forgetting.

You just assume everyone knows everything about this community, and sometimes we're not in the know.

I want to state the only thing different about the zdoom.exe executable is the fact the icon changed. I know because I created it using a resource editor. If I knew it was gonna cause that much trouble I'd have told MSPaintR0cks to use my custom executables as the source code is readily available on my GitHub repo. Which in hindsight is what should have been done. I could have even forked to use a different icon and the works.

As for it running in GZDoom 3.1.0, I tested it with the latest dev build and it seems to work, albiet with some warnings and some path follower objects not working on E1M4. I'm gonna consult with MSPaintR0cks and work on a fix.

For what it's worth, I do believe security is important, and I get being paranoid is a product of that. However it can scare people too much if they lose their marbles.
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Re: Rise Of The Wool Ball :3 (v1.1 released)

Postby Rachael » Sat Jun 10, 2017 1:51 am

It is not my intent to say you cannot include executables. You already cited two examples of people who've done it before - and I can cite you a third - Blade of Agony.

I'm also not trying to scare anyone. I will vouch for caution though - as I believe it's always warranted, and will continue to do so.

I also sometimes forget that having a red name means people will interpret my actions as being much more aggressive than they really are. I can assure you, I meant no aggression in saying what I did. I do hold a firm stance and I think I did a good job of expressing that - but I am not trying to pick on either you or mspaintrocks, single you guys out, or anything that we administrators often get misinterpreted as doing in this community. We ARE, after all, people, ourselves, and personally I would much prefer to just blend in despite my status, and not have to worry about being too firm. ;)
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Re: Rise Of The Wool Ball :3 (v1.1 released)

Postby SanyaWaffles » Sat Jun 10, 2017 1:58 am

Rachael wrote:I also sometimes forget that having a red name means people will interpret my actions as being much more aggressive than they really are.


People have a tendency when authority notices them, to be scared. It's part of human nature.

I mean when I saw you reply on my TC's thread I kind of jumped a bit. Just saying.

Even though the content of your post was anything but hostile.
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Re: Rise Of The Wool Ball :3 (v1.1 released)

Postby _mental_ » Sat Jun 10, 2017 2:57 am

The main problem here is the statement about incompatibility with other versions.

The provided executable is just ZDoom 2.8.1 with a custom icon. In addition, iwadinfo.txt was altered to run ROTWB.wad as IWAD. That's all I guess.
This means that Rise Of The Wool Ball can be run with ZDoom 2.8.1 (or GZDoom 1.9.1 and 2.1.1) without a problem using (Free)Doom 2 IWAD.
GZDoom 3.1.0 as the latest stable release can be used too but there are some issues, right?

Now please read my previous post: report bug(s) and they will be fixed.
I think such quality project should be added to the list of supported IWADs.
And I didn't attack anyone, I just proposed to build bridges instead of walls.
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Re: Rise Of The Wool Ball :3 (v1.1 released)

Postby MSPaintR0cks » Sat Jun 10, 2017 3:44 am

Woops, looks like I stirred up some misunderstandings with my statements here. ^^"

I really had no idea about Zdooms malware-ridden history, concerning standalone executables. I knew these were not the most popular form of distributing a mod, but I never assumed they had such massive downsides for some people. :shock:
I sent the game to alot of my non-doomer friends, and none of them ever had any issues, so I blindly assumed it would be the same for everyone else. ^^"
Sorry about that, now I know better what I am dealing with here.

In the end, the provided executable is just Zdoom 2.8.1, as Mental pointed out.
Technically the game runs in newer versions of GzDoom, but it has a few quirks and bugs and I was not able to find out the solution to some of them (like those Actor Mover problems). Zdoom 2.8.1 became kind of my favorite and most comfortable-to-use version during the making of SOTWB and ROTWB, so I wrongly thought "Why not just use that version to distribute it?" :3: It`s actually kind of a lazy decision, now that I see it this way.
SanyaWaffles and me will work on v1.2, which will hopefully be able to run properly. :D


On the other hand, I also just want to say that I had a few particular reasons to make it standalone. Most of them have to do with my own (i have to admit kind of stubborn^^") visions and ambitions regarding my projects, I understand if they contradict with the views of the more experienced modders.

I tried to craft a certain playing experience and feel for the game, which is different to the original doom. I wanted to move away from the "just-a-doom-mod" feel and take the player into a new "world". Which also means that I wanted to use certain settings and options (how the screen melts, how the player bobs, which renderstyle is fitting the graphics, how the music sounds etc), which could not be altered inside a wad file. That whole feel and immersion could easily be destroyed by user settings that may fit in most other doom mods, but would be out of place here. I know that this may sound like forcing the player to do the things I want him to do... but after all the work I put into the game to make it feel "alive" and atmospheric, I just want to make the playing experience feel more closer to the vision of the game I had from the beginning.
Last edited by MSPaintR0cks on Sat Jun 10, 2017 4:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Rise Of The Wool Ball :3 (v1.1 released)

Postby Jimmy » Sat Jun 10, 2017 3:52 am

I've only played the first level so far (boy, I've been doing that a lot lately), but this is so gosh-darned cute and perfect I can barely handle it.
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Re: Rise Of The Wool Ball :3 (v1.1 released)

Postby tsukiyomaru0 » Sat Jun 10, 2017 4:12 am

Seen a stream of it, the later half of the IWAD. It's very well made and both animations and art reminds me of something like 90's cartoons or early toon-sque games for PC. And it is not big either, in file size that is.
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Re: Rise Of The Wool Ball :3 (v1.1 released)

Postby MSPaintR0cks » Sat Jun 10, 2017 4:25 am

Jimmy wrote:I've only played the first level so far (boy, I've been doing that a lot lately), but this is so gosh-darned cute and perfect I can barely handle it.


I have to say, I always looked up to how you created The Adventures of Square (and it`s music, I think it`s so impressive how easily you seem to come up with your riffs and melodies and how it all sounds so professional, in a retro midi kind of way... especially when seeing the huge amount of music you already created), while I was getting more into doom modding. So hearing this is like twice as awesome for me.^^


tsukiyomaru0 wrote:Seen a stream of it, the later half of the IWAD. It's very well made and both animations and art reminds me of something like 90's cartoons or early toon-sque games for PC. And it is not big either, in file size that is.


Whaaat, it was played during a stream? Already? :D That`s so awesome... I would love to hear where it was streamed. :3
Thanks man, that 90s style was exactly what I wanted to go for.^^
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Re: Rise Of The Wool Ball :3 (v1.1 released)

Postby Batandy » Sat Jun 10, 2017 6:34 am

I'm at E1M5, this is really great, i'm having a blast playing it :)
I already enjoyed the first one alot and this takes it a step further, it's great
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Re: Rise Of The Wool Ball :3 (v1.1 released)

Postby _mental_ » Sat Jun 10, 2017 6:37 am

There is nothing wrong with releasing standalone version for people that even don't know what ZDoom is.
But it's bad if there is no mod version while nothing stands in the way of making it.

Moreover, this leads to other problems, like with partially broken actor movers. This wasn't reported yet but I confirm that the issue is present.
In short, currently flags are applied to all things regardless of their types but it's incorrect for interpolation points.
Ambush flag is set for some of them in E1M4 and that's why the following warnings where reported:
Spoiler:

Also, there is EXIT2 lump which contains music. The same lump is present in Doom IWADs although it's a graphics lump. This causes the following warnings:
Spoiler:

I think it's a good idea to rename it.
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Re: Rise Of The Wool Ball :3 (v1.1 released)

Postby SamotnyOgorek » Sat Jun 10, 2017 7:25 am

I've just finished my first run, and oh my god this is so GOOD!
I only have a few issues with it - ones that probably arent really worth fixing, but eh, whatever.
1 - Whenever the player dies, the normal XDeath animation plays. It kinda bugs me :3.
2 - There are no player sprites in chasecam mode at all. Not even normal DooM Guy. Again, just a nitpick :3.
3 - Here's one that made the game pretty easy - I never found myself running out of ammo for any weapon, which kinda obliterated any challenge the game might have had on me...
4 - I also only found myself using the bird gun, cucumber launcher and shotgun at all times. I didnt use anything else.
5 - WHERE IS THE GODDAMN GOLDEN SHOTGUN?!?!?!!?!?!?!

Sorry, I had to say it :3
Otherwise, the game is absolutely fantastic!
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Re: Rise Of The Wool Ball :3 (v1.1 released)

Postby MSPaintR0cks » Sat Jun 10, 2017 7:30 am

@Batandy
Thanks man.^^
Loved your first Golden Souls game btw :D ... and loved it even more as soon as I saw Morshu from the CD-I games xD

@Mental
Aaaaaah, so it was because of the flags all along?! :shock:
Thanks man, now I know how to fix that!
Also, I just watched a playtrough of Ep1 on GzDoom and was surprised how well everything worked, the interpolation points did their job too. (I also remember them not working in E1M5 and E1m3 on my version of GzDoom... weird)



@SamotnyOgorek
Oh shit, right, there was a chasecam option in GzDoom^^" never used that and totally forgot to take care of that.
Same thing for the DeathCam :D

Yeah, there is no golden shotgun this time :P
I thought the new weapons made the balancing a little better.
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Re: Rise Of The Wool Ball :3 (v1.1 released)

Postby SamotnyOgorek » Sat Jun 10, 2017 7:36 am

(quick response, holy cow :D)
I understand why you deleted the golden shotty, it was actually kinda OP, and with the bosses added here and how they work....
Well, let's say it's good you got rid of it and stop at that. :P
Also, are you gonna make some sort of "tutorial" (or something like that :P) for making custom levels for the game? I'd love to re-make some doom 1 / 2 levels in the ROTWB style :D
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Re: Rise Of The Wool Ball :3 (v1.1 released)

Postby _mental_ » Sat Jun 10, 2017 7:46 am

MSPaintR0cks wrote:Aaaaaah, so it was because of the flags all along?! :shock:
Thanks man, now I know how to fix that!

You can remove ambush flags for compatibility with 3.1.0 but in any case I'm about to fix this bug.
Is there anything else doesn't work right with never versions?
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Re: Rise Of The Wool Ball :3 (v1.1 released)

Postby MSPaintR0cks » Sat Jun 10, 2017 7:49 am

_mental_ wrote:
MSPaintR0cks wrote:Aaaaaah, so it was because of the flags all along?! :shock:
Thanks man, now I know how to fix that!

You can remove ambush flags for compatibility with 3.1.0 but in any case I'm about to fix this bug.
Is there anything else doesn't work right with never versions?


Aside from that, I spotted some HOMs in the skybox of E3 (especially during the cutscenes in E3M1 and B3DED. I think it has something to do with the camera being a lot more sensitive to floor/wall clipping in OpenGL. I think I could fix that by moving the camera a few tiny units.
But knowing why the interpolation did not work is a huge relief, I already assumed most of my cutscenes would randomly stop working the way they should because of that (I believed it accured more randomly until now)

Also there is another problem in the starting Cutscene of E3, but I guess it`s because one of the sprites clips directly into the camera view and blocks everything during a scene (its all white). Should not be too hard to fix for me.

Also, during a cutscene in E3M3, one actor (which is Scott that moves up vertically and throws a key trough a window) starts dropping to the floor instantly after finishing his animation. Did not happen in Zdoom, dunno why. I guess its because in GzDoom the gravity is set to pull dying actors down (he is destroyed during his animation).

SamotnyOgorek wrote:Also, are you gonna make some sort of "tutorial" (or something like that :P) for making custom levels for the game? I'd love to re-make some doom 1 / 2 levels in the ROTWB style :D


Pretty cool idea, actually. :D
I could try making a tutorial... but I can already say it is going to be a nightmare for everyone who tries to make maps. :D
My scripts are a huge mess, its kind of pure magic that it works the way it should troughout the maps.^^
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