☼ Hedon 1.5.2 (Now on GOG) ☼

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Re: ☼ Hedon(0.1.a) ☼

Postby chronoteeth » Thu May 18, 2017 2:07 pm

Her mug face is a bit weird, and doesnt match the initial art. I know its also a minor thing, but, I like how buff and powerful she looks, but something that feels weird: the vibes im getting are powerful, very muscular, etc. What I dont get is the weird... sexually inclined things. Clevage and a flimsy top with having such a small chest? Make up in the middle of a dark damp caves? The hud having strange super purse lips? I just feel like these design choices betray the vibes im getting. I wouldnt mind more strain, age, unsmooth-y skin, as well as more angularity in the face to complement the muscles. Middriff is one of the few things that feels pretty nice when generally speaking most women with an exposed middriff designed by men tend to be a bit to sexually creepy, but the muscles make the abs look more doomguy than that which is cool.

Personally, I think a rougher, firmer look, like a more, oddly enough, masculine form of whats for the title art might fit the character more than the strange, curvaceous form thats actually in the game. Just my opinion
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Re: ☼ Hedon(0.1.a) ☼

Postby Rachael » Thu May 18, 2017 2:07 pm

Zan wrote:I switched it do GZDoom 3.0.0, but I'm getting lower fps and my water sectors glitch out when I'm farther away from them like in this screenshot. Anyone knows why?
https://postimg.org/image/dmlcvogyn/

Friends get the glitch too, anything I can do about it?

In the interest of not leaving this unanswered - please report both issues (separately) on the Bug Reports forum.
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Re: ☼ Hedon(0.1.a) ☼

Postby Zan » Thu May 18, 2017 2:39 pm

chronoteeth wrote:Her mug face is a bit weird, and doesnt match the initial art. I know its also a minor thing, but, I like how buff and powerful she looks, but something that feels weird: the vibes im getting are powerful, very muscular, etc. What I dont get is the weird... sexually inclined things. Clevage and a flimsy top with having such a small chest? Make up in the middle of a dark damp caves? The hud having strange super purse lips? I just feel like these design choices betray the vibes im getting. I wouldnt mind more strain, age, unsmooth-y skin, as well as more angularity in the face to complement the muscles. Middriff is one of the few things that feels pretty nice when generally speaking most women with an exposed middriff designed by men tend to be a bit to sexually creepy, but the muscles make the abs look more doomguy than that which is cool.

Personally, I think a rougher, firmer look, like a more, oddly enough, masculine form of whats for the title art might fit the character more than the strange, curvaceous form thats actually in the game. Just my opinion

I get you points but it pretty much boils down to me sucking at drawing facial expressions (I actually didn't draw the title image, it was commissioned). I have a hard time using regular features so I tend to pump up things. As for the sexy part, it's intended so yeah, that's where I actually don't suck. ;)

I will consider redoing her mug, but that's far away in the future, I really have a lot more important things right now, so I don't think I'll tackle this until I finish three episodes of gameplay, which will likely take years.

_____________________________________________________________________________________
Rachael wrote:In the interest of not leaving this unanswered - please report both issues (separately) on the Bug Reports forum.

Thank you, I will!
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Re: ☼ Hedon(0.1.a) ☼

Postby chronoteeth » Thu May 18, 2017 2:59 pm

Zan wrote:
chronoteeth wrote:Her mug face is a bit weird, and doesnt match the initial art. I know its also a minor thing, but, I like how buff and powerful she looks, but something that feels weird: the vibes im getting are powerful, very muscular, etc. What I dont get is the weird... sexually inclined things. Clevage and a flimsy top with having such a small chest? Make up in the middle of a dark damp caves? The hud having strange super purse lips? I just feel like these design choices betray the vibes im getting. I wouldnt mind more strain, age, unsmooth-y skin, as well as more angularity in the face to complement the muscles. Middriff is one of the few things that feels pretty nice when generally speaking most women with an exposed middriff designed by men tend to be a bit to sexually creepy, but the muscles make the abs look more doomguy than that which is cool.

Personally, I think a rougher, firmer look, like a more, oddly enough, masculine form of whats for the title art might fit the character more than the strange, curvaceous form thats actually in the game. Just my opinion

I get you points but it pretty much boils down to me sucking at drawing facial expressions (I actually didn't draw the title image, it was commissioned). I have a hard time using regular features so I tend to pump up things. As for the sexy part, it's intended so yeah, that's where I actually don't suck. ;)

I will consider redoing her mug, but that's far away in the future, I really have a lot more important things right now, so I don't think I'll tackle this until I finish three episodes of gameplay, which will likely take years.

_____________________________________________________________________________________
Rachael wrote:In the interest of not leaving this unanswered - please report both issues (separately) on the Bug Reports forum.

Thank you, I will!


Intended..? Guess im one of those guys that feel like thats a bit... eugh, creepy. Especially considering im literally trying to survive in a hellish demeanor of a place, not get a boner. As for commissioned, perhaps the artist is cool with doing sprite commissions? Some folk aren't too shabby at it either!!
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Re: ☼ Hedon(0.1.a) ☼

Postby Zan » Thu May 18, 2017 3:03 pm

Paying 300$ for the title pic was enough (not that I regret it in any way, it's a good price for a good piece of work), I'd much rather draw everything else myself.

I suppose making orc chicks with guns hot is a thing now.

Also, spriting monsters is an inferno. By far the worst part of doom modding for me. Spending days drawing the same thing again and again is just... thank God I have Photoshop and it makes animating easier thanks to layers 'cause otherwise I would have dropped it.


Bottom line, being edgy and weird feels just right in an old school shooter. I'm honestly doing my best to not be creepy, but I feel like making people oddly uncomfortable is characteristic for old school zero fucks given games.
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Re: ☼ Hedon(0.1.a) ☼

Postby Enjay » Thu May 18, 2017 5:29 pm

Just played around in the demo: I love this. It's a very original piece of work with a beautiful aesthetic and a wonderful atmosphere. Sections of it reminded me of pagan areas and some of the tunnels in the original Thief games. As a very big Thief fan, that's most definitely a plus. I assume that the enemies using zombie/demon sounds is a placeholder. They will be much better when they have their own proper Hedon sounds.
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Re: ☼ Hedon(0.1.a) ☼

Postby Deii » Thu May 18, 2017 7:03 pm

Yep, I do like what I see. And Bear (the big one in the middle, in case that isn't her name) looks proper orcish if you ask me. Because tol and stronk.

Now, onto my thoughts. The art style really got my attention because all in all, it's just really different compared to the usual pixel art you get used to seeing around the internet. Characters and monsters vaguely look like they were digitized drawings, but in a very different way than Marathon's, while the environments just...kinda look stunning and brimming with atmosphere for something using a (obviously updated) version of Doom's engine. It's almost crossing into dark fantasy at times, but the color palette so far is quite vibrant and bright so it comes off as something a little on the campy, lighthearted - which to me, is a good thing, as it further makes Hedon more unique as a title.

I do enjoy the slight backtracking element as it gives one quite a lot of chance to take in the atmosphere of the game and really appreciate the hard work put into the map. I really think this one hell of a unique game, if anything, and I'm very eager to see what will be next! One slight suggestion is that some more environmental interaction (breaking rocks, slashing mushrooms and plants) would make it feel a tad more like a Build-powered game - but even then, this is already quite fantastic for a demo, even if getting one of the weapons crashes it. ;P

And on Zan's portrayal being slightly creepy or unnerving to some due to mixing buff, chunky looks with unexpectedly feminine and rather attractive features...I say just kick back and relax because this is actually pretty in-line with 90s aesthetic - you guys do remember one of Quake 3's characters was literally an amazon in a skimpy thong bikini that didn't even pass for an armored bikini, right? - and even if it wasn't, I doubt anyone in the Doom community really cares about being politically correct and SJW-type drivel, as the game itself back then was a huuuge no-no for parents and the like.

On a small sidenote, as someone who is into writing (only as a hobbie and primarily for roleplaying purposes), this project kind of feels...different than most after you mentioning that Zan had been your OC for 10 years. There's...a little bit of familiarity in it, for lack of a better word. It's kinda giving me some inspiration, as a matter of fact!
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Re: ☼ Hedon(0.1.a) ☼

Postby Zan » Fri May 19, 2017 12:08 am

@Enjay Like it or not, Thief (1, 2, all the fanmade stuff especially Shadows of the Metal Age) is by far my top favorite game, and even if I don't get to reproduce any sort of it, I am subconsciously inspired by its' atmosphere. Hell, I also slipped in a Thief reference as soon as you enter the forest in the first level.
As for the monster sounds, it's gonna be a bit hard to get some proper ones but I'll do my best.

@Deii I actually want Hedon to take attitude towards various cancerous trends in gaming today:
1. One color palette levels. It's in a lot of new games, every level has the same dominant color. Dusty dark, industrial brown, offfice gray, visually cluttered brain tiring forest green etc. I'm trying to break monotony and vary the atmosphere of levels as well as the setting, just like an old school game would have. Remember Serious Sam.

2. Backtracking. Figuring out what to do. Having limited pickable resources (health, armor, power ups) around which you need to find and manage. The first level is an actual training mission. Get to move a bit around, see how jumping works, swim a bit, see how interaction and level progression works, then meet some monsters and see how fighting works. Then step into an intrigue and have a linearish forest part where you just wreck wimpy cultists.
Never did I want to give a hint or an arrow pointing at what to do during this proces. I give you the resources. I spend time sketching and planning on level design. I won't insult your intellect by pushing you through a set corridor. This traces back to my love for Arx Fatalis and Ultima Underworld which were absolutely hardcore at backtracking and figuring out what you have to do next and so on. Of course, I won't do it that much, just take from it the bit I find to add to the old school experience.

3. Randomization and procedurally generated content. Losing the art of level design. I want to study old games and make an efort to revive good level design.

4. Pandering to SJWs. No, just no..

This being said, I took note of your suggestion for breakable envireonment, it is already planned but most likely will make it in as a general update once the game or perhaps the first episode is released. So yeah, years possibly. You need to understand that I have to work fast and implement the bare minimum I need to make the game good as a one man dev team, so I need to be efficient and keep the extra features for when I have a good chunk of levels to test and work with.
Last edited by Zan on Fri May 19, 2017 12:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: ☼ Hedon(0.1.a) ☼

Postby SoundOfDarkness » Fri May 19, 2017 12:14 am

Zan wrote:Pandering to SJWs. No, just no..

This. :thumb: :thumb: :thumb: :thumb:
I hate that nowadays everything has to be absolutely correct in every possible way, so no one feels insulted or some shit.

Unfortunately your TC is not my style but still, keep up the good work.
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Re: ☼ Hedon(0.1.a) ☼

Postby Zan » Fri May 19, 2017 12:17 am

SoundOfDarkness wrote:
Zan wrote:Pandering to SJWs. No, just no..

This. :thumb: :thumb: :thumb: :thumb:
I hate that nowadays everything has to be absolutely correct in every possible way, so no one feels insulted or some shit.

Unfortunately your TC is not my style but still, keep up the good work.

I'm sure as hell not planning to insult anyone with Hedon, but that's the actual problem - SJW is the art of finding reasons to attack something.

Why is it not your style, is it the visuals or the gameplay?
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Re: ☼ Hedon(0.1.a) ☼

Postby SoundOfDarkness » Fri May 19, 2017 12:31 am

Zan wrote:I'm sure as hell not planning to insult anyone with Hedon, but that's the actual problem - SJW is the art of finding reasons to attack something.

Yeah, and it seems 75% of the internet today are people who feel insulted at everything.

Zan wrote:Why is it not your style, is it the visuals or the gameplay?

I like the visuals, even though Zan is really not my type of girl. ;)
I was never a fan of the Thief games and I prefer straight forward gameplay most of the time. Running around for half an hour with just exploring and nothing happening is boring for me. I don't necessarily need fast paced action from the first second, that depends on the type of game. I even like some of those walking simulators if they have the right atmosphere and at least something is happening around me. So yeah, Hedon's gameplay is unfortunately not my style. But don't let that discourage you, that's just my opinion.
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Re: ☼ Hedon(0.1.a) ☼

Postby Zan » Fri May 19, 2017 1:41 am

Ah, like I said, the first level is structured as a training mission, rest of the game will be more gory gun play, so stay tuned~
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Re: ☼ Hedon(0.1.a) ☼

Postby Rachael » Fri May 19, 2017 1:56 am

I think we should keep SJW talk to a minimum in this thread.

I am not trying to defend/attack them or anything like that - I just really think that the whole discussion is the kind of bullshit we don't need here and it's a very quick way to needlessly make enemies in this community. Not to mention a great way to spoil a very promising up and coming project that I am eager to see how it continues. ^_^
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Re: ☼ Hedon(0.1.a) ☼

Postby Enjay » Fri May 19, 2017 1:53 pm

Zan wrote:@Enjay Like it or not, Thief (1, 2, all the fanmade stuff especially Shadows of the Metal Age) is by far my top favorite game, and even if I don't get to reproduce any sort of it, I am subconsciously inspired by its' atmosphere. Hell, I also slipped in a Thief reference as soon as you enter the forest in the first level.

I love the Thief games too so anything that captures any aspect of the wonderful atmosphere those games (especially 1 & 2) is more than fine by me. However, I'm not sure I have sptted the reference. Is it the message about a fence, the shards, the ruby etc?

Zan wrote:As for the monster sounds, it's gonna be a bit hard to get some proper ones but I'll do my best.

I hope that you can get/make something because I feel that it would make a big difference.
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Re: ☼ Hedon(0.1.a) ☼

Postby Zan » Fri May 19, 2017 2:16 pm

Yes, B. is Basso and G. is Garrett.
And I surely will :D
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