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Re: ☼ Hedon (Released!) ☼

PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2019 3:30 pm
by Zan
SamVision wrote:The early levels just need a few tweaks such as landmarks and lighting to guide the player to the different locations without stringing the player along too much.

Any concrete suggestions?

Re: ☼ Hedon (Released!) ☼

PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2019 3:50 pm
by Kroc
I'm using 1366x768 resolution BTW. I can understand designing for 1920x1080 as default (desktop PCs), but the most common laptop resolution is 1366x768.

Re: ☼ Hedon (Released!) ☼

PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2019 3:56 pm
by Zan
Kroc wrote:I'm using 1366x768 resolution BTW. I can understand designing for 1920x1080 as default (desktop PCs), but the most common laptop resolution is 1366x768.

Scale 1 should work perfectly fine for that imo. At least on my laptop it was fine.
Anyway there's not much I can do about it.

Re: ☼ Hedon (Released!) ☼

PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2019 5:48 am
by Big_Bad_yankee
A quest log / item log / message log would be nice. Loving the design and attention to detail

Re: ☼ Hedon (Released!) ☼

PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2019 8:03 am
by Zan
Big_Bad_yankee wrote:A quest log / item log / message log would be nice. Loving the design and attention to detail

Is it even possible to adapt Strife's mission log? Or do you need some ACS magic at play? Again, I'm not sure about having a quest log, but if it's straightforward to do I might consider it.

Re: ☼ Hedon (Released!) ☼

PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2019 9:32 am
by Beezle
Zan wrote:
Big_Bad_yankee wrote:A quest log / item log / message log would be nice. Loving the design and attention to detail

Is it even possible to adapt Strife's mission log? Or do you need some ACS magic at play? Again, I'm not sure about having a quest log, but if it's straightforward to do I might consider it.

Yes! A quest log would be great, the start of Hedon is not THAT complicated. you just got to pay attention to the landscape and backtrack a little, but it would help seeing a check mark next to a quest item (i.e. the power crystal for the switch in the beginning). The level design and attention to detail is amazing. It would also be cool if you could see the notes in the quest/ item log so they are in bigger words, but that's pretty minor. So far loving this Zan :D

Re: ☼ Hedon (Released!) ☼

PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2019 11:49 am
by ReformedJoe
Zan wrote:Is it even possible to adapt Strife's mission log? Or do you need some ACS magic at play? Again, I'm not sure about having a quest log, but if it's straightforward to do I might consider it.

Yes, you can use SBARINFO to create custom versions of the strife popup screens. See popuplog, it behaves just like any other piece of the statusbar (with all the kludgeness that entails).

I don't know how you would go about updating the objectives though. Probably a lot of InInventory spaghetti or some creeping global variable horror.

It would be a bit of a pain tbh, but no more so than smashing something together in ACS.

Re: ☼ Hedon (Released!) ☼

PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2019 3:03 pm
by Gez
One monster seems to be bugged, on the Grove map I finished the level with 260 kills out of 264. However, there were no counting monsters left. Checking with the console proved it ("monster" console command only listed decorative critters; "kill monsters" massacred these critters without changing the counter). My first guess is that it's caused by the pain elemental's local cousins; it might be the case that sometimes their explodo minions fail to spawn but still increase the counter. I haven't checked the code yet though, don't want to spoil too much by looking at the game's innards before finishing a first playthrough.

PS: in that map's strangest secret, there's a message with a typo: "pelicle" should be written "pellicle".

Re: ☼ Hedon (Released!) ☼

PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2019 3:34 pm
by Zan
Gez wrote:One monster seems to be bugged, on the Grove map I finished the level with 260 kills out of 264. However, there were no counting monsters left. Checking with the console proved it ("monster" console command only listed decorative critters; "kill monsters" massacred these critters without changing the counter). My first guess is that it's caused by the pain elemental's local cousins; it might be the case that sometimes their explodo minions fail to spawn but still increase the counter. I haven't checked the code yet though, don't want to spoil too much by looking at the game's innards before finishing a first playthrough.

PS: in that map's strangest secret, there's a message with a typo: "pelicle" should be written "pellicle".

Ah, nice spot, fixed.
Regarding the Forge Elementals and monster counter you're not the first one to have noticed that, I have no idea what it could be. Thing, is, Forge Elementals spawn versions of the urchins that don't count as monsters so it has to be something else...

Re: ☼ Hedon (Released!) ☼

PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2019 3:40 pm
by Kroc
Just completed it. Epic, utterly epic. Like, one of the best games I've ever played, period. Totally engrossing world-building and story telling. The whole temple run with your team by your side was glorious! Production quality was off-the-hook.

BTW: I noticed half way through that the default graphics settings are 8x Super-sample and FSAA on! This kills the laptop-GPU. Consider not having these on, in the out-of-the-box config to get less complaints about performance.

The levels just keep getting better and better, one after the other. Even by the time you've gotten to Parapet, MAP03 really feels like a weak-point in the game even though it's a perfectly good map; I think the sameishness of scenery, stone-work and the like is too much by then. Perhaps the Barracks could do with a different visual design.

Puzzles throughout were great. Intelligent, not laborious or difficult if you pay attention. In fact the earlier puzzles like brewing the ink show the worst aspects early on in the game and might put people off. There's definitely better puzzles later on, and once the player is more acclimatized, then the multi-step brewing puzzle would be more fitting. Just my opinion though, I'm more detail-focused than most.

MAP07 - Parapet: I could not, for the life of me, find that last secret. Using IDDT, I can see it's right in the open, but there's nothing actually visible on that spot. I tried hunting around for secret switches or tunnels for ages, I don't know if I just missed something obvious or it's dependant on something else.

First Boss: Had to cheat that; completely crazy difficulty spike (HNTR). Framerate struggles whilst stuff is hitting me from every direction.

MAP10 - Crystal Heart: The start of this level is a bit... formulaic. Each section is varied, but you basically know what you're doing from the beginning and so it's an rote exercise in execution. The way you could sneakily get between two sections in some instances and abuse the teleporters was honestly the best bit about it.

Last Boss: Likewise. unreasonably difficult and not all that interesting as far as a boss goes. My team got slaughtered and there was not much I could do. It's a broken juxtaposition considering what you've just come through. If I may make a radical suggestion, there could be crystal-powered 'robots' (like temple guardians) that have been hijacked by the dark forces. The final boss could then be a massive crystal robot, i.e. the thing originally designed to protect the Crystal Heart, but now turned against the orcs.

All of those are subjective nit-picks and the like and you know how to make your game how you want. If I was limited to make only one complaint / suggestion for the entire thing then that would be that the inventory is fiddly and terribly difficult to put to use in the heat of battle. Hotkeys quickly become too numerous to deal with all items, and cycling wastes time when trying to enable multiple items. Honestly I get flummoxed quickly. If I could pause the game when opening an inventory screen to use items, then I could make much better use of what I have throughout battles -- I ended up with stock-piles of certain items and others simply went unused throughout (haste).

None of my feedback has impinged my ability to enjoy the game. This was straight up a masterpiece and I loved every minute. Keep up the great work!

Re: ☼ Hedon (Released!) ☼

PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2019 2:26 am
by Zan
Kroc wrote:Just completed it. Epic, utterly epic. Like, one of the best games I've ever played, period. Totally engrossing world-building and story telling. The whole temple run with your team by your side was glorious! Production quality was off-the-hook.

Thaanks, hopefully more to come in the future!

Kroc wrote:BTW: I noticed half way through that the default graphics settings are 8x Super-sample and FSAA on! This kills the laptop-GPU. Consider not having these on, in the out-of-the-box config to get less complaints about performance.

Huh, strange. The reason why I defaulted these settings was that they seemed to actually improve my performance. Maybe it depends on the GPU? (I have a GTX 1060)

Kroc wrote:MAP07 - Parapet: I could not, for the life of me, find that last secret. Using IDDT, I can see it's right in the open, but there's nothing actually visible on that spot. I tried hunting around for secret switches or tunnels for ages, I don't know if I just missed something obvious or it's dependant on something else.

Let's just say I've made a series of adjustments that should better guide the player towards finding it.

Kroc wrote:First Boss: Had to cheat that; completely crazy difficulty spike (HNTR). Framerate struggles whilst stuff is hitting me from every direction.

Yeah, I can imagine how low framerate can ruin the experience for someone.
Thing about the boss fights is that they range from trivial to really hard depending on how you use your consumables and resources. Try fighting the final boss without any orc at your side and you'll see what real grind hell looks like xd


Kroc wrote:If I could pause the game when opening an inventory screen to use items, then I could make much better use of what I have throughout battles -- I ended up with stock-piles of certain items and others simply went unused throughout (haste).

I mean pressing F1 to check the hotkeys can work like that. Otherwise, as much as I'd like a fancy inventory, I can't see that being done without ZScript. I'd like to learn to use ZScript but I have 0 time for it, and even if I had spare time I'd rather learn more about 3D modelling instead.

Kroc wrote:None of my feedback has impinged my ability to enjoy the game. This was straight up a masterpiece and I loved every minute. Keep up the great work!

Well I'm really glad you liked it, I've adjusted a bunch of stuff and am getting closer to a first patch/1.1.0 release, so it only gets better from here. :p

Re: ☼ Hedon (Released!) ☼

PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2019 2:38 am
by Kroc
Zan wrote:Huh, strange. The reason why I defaulted these settings was that they seemed to actually improve my performance. Maybe it depends on the GPU? (I have a GTX 1060)


I'm using Intel HD 4400 graphics, so the super-sampling is *massively* increasing the VRAM usage and that's probably what's causing the slow-down. :)

Re: ☼ Hedon (1.1.0 Released!) ☼

PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2019 5:55 am
by Zan
1.1.0 is out! Also, don't forget to check out Mr. Icarus' new review!
You can find both in the main post.

Re: ☼ Hedon (1.1.0 Released!) ☼

PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2019 7:38 am
by Gez
I just finished it recently as well, so my thoughts.

Spoiler:

Re: ☼ Hedon (1.1.0 Released!) ☼

PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2019 10:05 am
by Zan
Gez wrote:I just finished it recently as well, so my thoughts.

Spoiler:

Cool, glad to have more feedback!
The timed platforming in the fire section has been changed in 1.1.0 - now all the platforms move at the same time, so no more need to wait for them to sync.
Regarding platforming in general, air control has been doubled, making it easier to adjust your position while in the air.
It's good you found workarounds for not having the Air Figurine, I intentionally allowed room for that (rocket jumping is fine too, afaik there's no place in game where you could break it if you rocket or lance jump).

I made some little adjustments for the Nithriel "stealth" segment, but the bulk if it remain the same. I really need to put emphasis on her meaning absolute business and get the player tense. On easier difficulties there aren't as many clones, but on normal and hard I think I'll stick to how it is right now.

The boss fights are a complicated thing. First of all, I've had people who absolutely loved them and absolutely hated them. Secondly, if you know what you're doing these fights can become downright trivial.
One thing I did was add 4 extra Haste Potions for the final boss which should help dish out damage faster when his adds are dead and you enter sort of a grind segment until the next phase comes around. But imagine if someone barges in on the easier difficulties with 6 angry orcs that start shooting him - he'll be dead before he gets to kill half of them. It's not how you're supposed to fight him, but that's the entire point of Hedon - to reward players for being creative and resourceful.
As for Nithriel, I find the fight to be pretty well adjusted, considering difficulty modifiers and all, so I doubt I'm going to change much. Once again I've had people melting down over the first phase, and people who used that Potion of Might (which by the way, in 1.1.0 sits on a pedestal sort of thing, which should make it look more important and help the player link it to having to use it).
I know the inventory isn't the friendliest thing in the world, but again - it rewards people who use it or press F1 or learn the hotkeys or read the main menu tips or the gameplay manual and so on.

Regarding the monsters, well, Iron Maiden have their attack animations fleshed out, but they keep their shield up while attacking so it's not super obvious that they're doing it. They also recoil back and forth as they stab you, but I don't think I can do more than that. Either way, the player should never want to get close to them :D
With the Cerberus explosion I wanted to emulate how even if they jump and miss you, if they were close enough one of the side heads could get a passing bite at you. However I can see how this can look glitchy in your case, so I'll try to either reduce the radius or find another way to do it.

Oh and good thing you brought up the dormant Golems, that issue should be fixed now! (I forgot that players could use the elevator before opening the shutter to the library which normally activated them).

Thanks a lot, glad you liked it and don't worry about focusing on "negative" feedback, that helps me a lot more than the positive one at the end of the day!