☼ Hedon 1.5.2 (Now on GOG) ☼

[Zan]

The early levels just need a few tweaks such as landmarks and lighting to guide the player to the different locations without stringing the player along too much.

Any concrete suggestions?

[Kroc]

I'm using 1366x768 resolution BTW. I can understand designing for 1920x1080 as default (desktop PCs), but the most common laptop resolution is 1366x768.

[Zan]

I'm using 1366x768 resolution BTW. I can understand designing for 1920x1080 as default (desktop PCs), but the most common laptop resolution is 1366x768.

Scale 1 should work perfectly fine for that imo. At least on my laptop it was fine.
Anyway there's not much I can do about it.

[Big_Bad_yankee]

A quest log / item log / message log would be nice. Loving the design and attention to detail

[Zan]

A quest log / item log / message log would be nice. Loving the design and attention to detail

Is it even possible to adapt Strife's mission log? Or do you need some ACS magic at play? Again, I'm not sure about having a quest log, but if it's straightforward to do I might consider it.

[Beezle]

A quest log / item log / message log would be nice. Loving the design and attention to detail

Is it even possible to adapt Strife's mission log? Or do you need some ACS magic at play? Again, I'm not sure about having a quest log, but if it's straightforward to do I might consider it.

Yes! A quest log would be great, the start of Hedon is not THAT complicated. you just got to pay attention to the landscape and backtrack a little, but it would help seeing a check mark next to a quest item (i.e. the power crystal for the switch in the beginning). The level design and attention to detail is amazing. It would also be cool if you could see the notes in the quest/ item log so they are in bigger words, but that's pretty minor. So far loving this Zan

[ReformedJoe]

Is it even possible to adapt Strife's mission log? Or do you need some ACS magic at play? Again, I'm not sure about having a quest log, but if it's straightforward to do I might consider it.

Yes, you can use SBARINFO to create custom versions of the strife popup screens. See popuplog, it behaves just like any other piece of the statusbar (with all the kludgeness that entails).

I don't know how you would go about updating the objectives though. Probably a lot of InInventory spaghetti or some creeping global variable horror.

It would be a bit of a pain tbh, but no more so than smashing something together in ACS.

[Gez]

One monster seems to be bugged, on the Grove map I finished the level with 260 kills out of 264. However, there were no counting monsters left. Checking with the console proved it ("monster" console command only listed decorative critters; "kill monsters" massacred these critters without changing the counter). My first guess is that it's caused by the pain elemental's local cousins; it might be the case that sometimes their explodo minions fail to spawn but still increase the counter. I haven't checked the code yet though, don't want to spoil too much by looking at the game's innards before finishing a first playthrough.

PS: in that map's strangest secret, there's a message with a typo: "pelicle" should be written "pellicle".

[Zan]

One monster seems to be bugged, on the Grove map I finished the level with 260 kills out of 264. However, there were no counting monsters left. Checking with the console proved it ("monster" console command only listed decorative critters; "kill monsters" massacred these critters without changing the counter). My first guess is that it's caused by the pain elemental's local cousins; it might be the case that sometimes their explodo minions fail to spawn but still increase the counter. I haven't checked the code yet though, don't want to spoil too much by looking at the game's innards before finishing a first playthrough.

PS: in that map's strangest secret, there's a message with a typo: "pelicle" should be written "pellicle".

Ah, nice spot, fixed.
Regarding the Forge Elementals and monster counter you're not the first one to have noticed that, I have no idea what it could be. Thing, is, Forge Elementals spawn versions of the urchins that don't count as monsters so it has to be something else...

[Kroc]

Just completed it. Epic, utterly epic. Like, one of the best games I've ever played, period. Totally engrossing world-building and story telling. The whole temple run with your team by your side was glorious! Production quality was off-the-hook.

BTW: I noticed half way through that the default graphics settings are 8x Super-sample and FSAA on! This kills the laptop-GPU. Consider not having these on, in the out-of-the-box config to get less complaints about performance.

The levels just keep getting better and better, one after the other. Even by the time you've gotten to Parapet, MAP03 really feels like a weak-point in the game even though it's a perfectly good map; I think the sameishness of scenery, stone-work and the like is too much by then. Perhaps the Barracks could do with a different visual design.

Puzzles throughout were great. Intelligent, not laborious or difficult if you pay attention. In fact the earlier puzzles like brewing the ink show the worst aspects early on in the game and might put people off. There's definitely better puzzles later on, and once the player is more acclimatized, then the multi-step brewing puzzle would be more fitting. Just my opinion though, I'm more detail-focused than most.

MAP07 - Parapet: I could not, for the life of me, find that last secret. Using IDDT, I can see it's right in the open, but there's nothing actually visible on that spot. I tried hunting around for secret switches or tunnels for ages, I don't know if I just missed something obvious or it's dependant on something else.

First Boss: Had to cheat that; completely crazy difficulty spike (HNTR). Framerate struggles whilst stuff is hitting me from every direction.

MAP10 - Crystal Heart: The start of this level is a bit... formulaic. Each section is varied, but you basically know what you're doing from the beginning and so it's an rote exercise in execution. The way you could sneakily get between two sections in some instances and abuse the teleporters was honestly the best bit about it.

Last Boss: Likewise. unreasonably difficult and not all that interesting as far as a boss goes. My team got slaughtered and there was not much I could do. It's a broken juxtaposition considering what you've just come through. If I may make a radical suggestion, there could be crystal-powered 'robots' (like temple guardians) that have been hijacked by the dark forces. The final boss could then be a massive crystal robot, i.e. the thing originally designed to protect the Crystal Heart, but now turned against the orcs.

All of those are subjective nit-picks and the like and you know how to make your game how you want. If I was limited to make only one complaint / suggestion for the entire thing then that would be that the inventory is fiddly and terribly difficult to put to use in the heat of battle. Hotkeys quickly become too numerous to deal with all items, and cycling wastes time when trying to enable multiple items. Honestly I get flummoxed quickly. If I could pause the game when opening an inventory screen to use items, then I could make much better use of what I have throughout battles -- I ended up with stock-piles of certain items and others simply went unused throughout (haste).

None of my feedback has impinged my ability to enjoy the game. This was straight up a masterpiece and I loved every minute. Keep up the great work!

[Zan]

Just completed it. Epic, utterly epic. Like, one of the best games I've ever played, period. Totally engrossing world-building and story telling. The whole temple run with your team by your side was glorious! Production quality was off-the-hook.

Thaanks, hopefully more to come in the future!

BTW: I noticed half way through that the default graphics settings are 8x Super-sample and FSAA on! This kills the laptop-GPU. Consider not having these on, in the out-of-the-box config to get less complaints about performance.

Huh, strange. The reason why I defaulted these settings was that they seemed to actually improve my performance. Maybe it depends on the GPU? (I have a GTX 1060)

MAP07 - Parapet: I could not, for the life of me, find that last secret. Using IDDT, I can see it's right in the open, but there's nothing actually visible on that spot. I tried hunting around for secret switches or tunnels for ages, I don't know if I just missed something obvious or it's dependant on something else.

Let's just say I've made a series of adjustments that should better guide the player towards finding it.

First Boss: Had to cheat that; completely crazy difficulty spike (HNTR). Framerate struggles whilst stuff is hitting me from every direction.

Yeah, I can imagine how low framerate can ruin the experience for someone.
Thing about the boss fights is that they range from trivial to really hard depending on how you use your consumables and resources. Try fighting the final boss without any orc at your side and you'll see what real grind hell looks like xd

If I could pause the game when opening an inventory screen to use items, then I could make much better use of what I have throughout battles -- I ended up with stock-piles of certain items and others simply went unused throughout (haste).

I mean pressing F1 to check the hotkeys can work like that. Otherwise, as much as I'd like a fancy inventory, I can't see that being done without ZScript. I'd like to learn to use ZScript but I have 0 time for it, and even if I had spare time I'd rather learn more about 3D modelling instead.

None of my feedback has impinged my ability to enjoy the game. This was straight up a masterpiece and I loved every minute. Keep up the great work!

Well I'm really glad you liked it, I've adjusted a bunch of stuff and am getting closer to a first patch/1.1.0 release, so it only gets better from here.

[Kroc]

Huh, strange. The reason why I defaulted these settings was that they seemed to actually improve my performance. Maybe it depends on the GPU? (I have a GTX 1060)

I'm using Intel HD 4400 graphics, so the super-sampling is *massively* increasing the VRAM usage and that's probably what's causing the slow-down.

[Zan]

1.1.0 is out! Also, don't forget to check out Mr. Icarus' new review!
You can find both in the main post.

[Gez]

I just finished it recently as well, so my thoughts.

---

First five levels: great introduction to the world with lots of notes to read here and there as you piece out what has been happening.

MAP06: the first half, with exposition, is interesting and atmospheric, at least on a first playthrough. The second part, against the baddie, was tedious. First there's the sneaky part, which is far too linear. I reached the elevator in the throwback-to-first-level part and there I was stuck. There was one Nathriel right outside that camped me out. And another waiting in the room at the end of the corridor. I tried waiting a lot (pointless), I tried going back down and trying to lure them away then running right back up (pointless too and also the already-dodged Nathriels were still around of course), to no avail, I was locked out in an unwinnable situation. So screw it, I decide to just sneak past these two with freeze. They're immune to freeze. Okay, cool. Are they immune to mdk? No, they're not. Alright, onward to the next part! And that last part is a long, tedious boss fight. Grab axe, throw axe, dodge, repeat for a while, then eventually some other weapons appear but it still takes a long, long, long while. Not a fan of this level.

MAP07 to MAP09: back to the cool exploration/puzzle/action gameplay. No complaint there.

MAP10: first part, I did it all wrong, heh. For some reason I missed the air statuette that's probably intended to be the first you find, since it's in the center room. I first went through the water puzzle, saw the water columns, swam up, explored the ceiling, jumped down to the elevated opening, and from there grabbed the water statuette. Then next was the fire room. I heavily dislike timed platforming in the Doom engine, so savescummed through that part. Got the fire statuette and symbol. Melted the ice in the water part, got the water emblem. Now there was just the issue of air and earth. The earth area being toxic, it was obvious I needed the air statuette to cleanse it. But it was also obvious I needed the earth statuette to explore the air area. I did find out that shooting the glowy symbols on the walls opened something, and there was a ledge running all around the cavern, so after several tries I managed to strafe jump there. No way to reach the cloud spiral, but I did reach the part I had opened, and found out an unmarked secret. No statuette. Drat. So then I went to the earth cavern, and used the time stop shards to sneak past the poison clouds. Grabbed earth statuette and emblem, activated air pedestal with earth statuette, got air emblem. Still no air statuette anywhere. Oh well, got all four emblems, let's go to the central pillary thing -- and that's where I saw the air statuette mocking me.

Anyway once that was done and after some exploration, we finally meet some survivors who can actually serve a purpose. However by this point I've been so accustomed to progressing slowly and carefully alone that I didn't want to bother with AI partners who'd just get killed instantly, so I just told them to stay put. I cheesed the hell out of the library area by using the elevator to squash enemies, that was fun. Then I saw the dormant golems, had the bright idea of pushing them to the elevator kill zone by bashing them with the axe (they move a bit when hit even though invulnerable while dormant), and thus locked myself out since once the elevator was stuck trying to crush them, it was no longer possible to go back up to open the door. Heh. It's true what they say, too much cheese is bad for you. Had to reload a previous save and fight the ninja dolls for real, sigh.

Moving on to the final boss, well it was again another tedious endurance trial as you ever so slowly whittle down a tank's massive supply of hit points, while trying to dodge its bullet hell attacks, and then there are more enemies pouring in to make the task more complex. Thankfully I had a bunch of items saved. And then the end.

IMO the boss fights are the weakest part of the experience. I get that it's hard to make a challenging boss without making it a hit point sponge, but honestly I'd rather be disappointed by an anticlimactic pushover boss than disappointed by an endless fight against a spongy boss. I feel that if I play through Hedon again, I'll just skip the bosses with mdk.


Moving away from map-specific feedback. Most normal enemies are okay but I feel like two of them aren't signaling their attacks well. The shieldmaiden when it's blocking attacks with its shield will end her defensive posture with a "shing sound" and that hurts you. I never noticed her actually attacking -- if there's an animation of her stabbing with her blade or something it's not visible enough. The cerberus, when lounging, is able to hurt you even if it doesn't actually connect -- I was hurt by one bumping against a crate I was using for cover, for example. So it seems that it has a radius damage effect when doing that, too, which could be shown by an aura of flames or something. As is, it just looks like a collision detection bug.

I apologize because my feedback tends to focus on the negative and nitpicky things. I'm terrible at praising the things I like! I did enjoy it a lot overall, except for the end parts of MAP06 and MAP10. The levels are wonderfully detailed and coherent, it does truly seem like an consistent world we're exploring, and combat against the mooks is very satisfying. The axe is especially fun to throw (it's just too bad we can't dual-wield to have two to throw in a row) so much that I kinda underused the other weapons until the massed battles of the last level.

[Zan]

I just finished it recently as well, so my thoughts.

---

First five levels: great introduction to the world with lots of notes to read here and there as you piece out what has been happening.

MAP06: the first half, with exposition, is interesting and atmospheric, at least on a first playthrough. The second part, against the baddie, was tedious. First there's the sneaky part, which is far too linear. I reached the elevator in the throwback-to-first-level part and there I was stuck. There was one Nathriel right outside that camped me out. And another waiting in the room at the end of the corridor. I tried waiting a lot (pointless), I tried going back down and trying to lure them away then running right back up (pointless too and also the already-dodged Nathriels were still around of course), to no avail, I was locked out in an unwinnable situation. So screw it, I decide to just sneak past these two with freeze. They're immune to freeze. Okay, cool. Are they immune to mdk? No, they're not. Alright, onward to the next part! And that last part is a long, tedious boss fight. Grab axe, throw axe, dodge, repeat for a while, then eventually some other weapons appear but it still takes a long, long, long while. Not a fan of this level.

MAP07 to MAP09: back to the cool exploration/puzzle/action gameplay. No complaint there.

MAP10: first part, I did it all wrong, heh. For some reason I missed the air statuette that's probably intended to be the first you find, since it's in the center room. I first went through the water puzzle, saw the water columns, swam up, explored the ceiling, jumped down to the elevated opening, and from there grabbed the water statuette. Then next was the fire room. I heavily dislike timed platforming in the Doom engine, so savescummed through that part. Got the fire statuette and symbol. Melted the ice in the water part, got the water emblem. Now there was just the issue of air and earth. The earth area being toxic, it was obvious I needed the air statuette to cleanse it. But it was also obvious I needed the earth statuette to explore the air area. I did find out that shooting the glowy symbols on the walls opened something, and there was a ledge running all around the cavern, so after several tries I managed to strafe jump there. No way to reach the cloud spiral, but I did reach the part I had opened, and found out an unmarked secret. No statuette. Drat. So then I went to the earth cavern, and used the time stop shards to sneak past the poison clouds. Grabbed earth statuette and emblem, activated air pedestal with earth statuette, got air emblem. Still no air statuette anywhere. Oh well, got all four emblems, let's go to the central pillary thing -- and that's where I saw the air statuette mocking me.

Anyway once that was done and after some exploration, we finally meet some survivors who can actually serve a purpose. However by this point I've been so accustomed to progressing slowly and carefully alone that I didn't want to bother with AI partners who'd just get killed instantly, so I just told them to stay put. I cheesed the hell out of the library area by using the elevator to squash enemies, that was fun. Then I saw the dormant golems, had the bright idea of pushing them to the elevator kill zone by bashing them with the axe (they move a bit when hit even though invulnerable while dormant), and thus locked myself out since once the elevator was stuck trying to crush them, it was no longer possible to go back up to open the door. Heh. It's true what they say, too much cheese is bad for you. Had to reload a previous save and fight the ninja dolls for real, sigh.

Moving on to the final boss, well it was again another tedious endurance trial as you ever so slowly whittle down a tank's massive supply of hit points, while trying to dodge its bullet hell attacks, and then there are more enemies pouring in to make the task more complex. Thankfully I had a bunch of items saved. And then the end.

IMO the boss fights are the weakest part of the experience. I get that it's hard to make a challenging boss without making it a hit point sponge, but honestly I'd rather be disappointed by an anticlimactic pushover boss than disappointed by an endless fight against a spongy boss. I feel that if I play through Hedon again, I'll just skip the bosses with mdk.


Moving away from map-specific feedback. Most normal enemies are okay but I feel like two of them aren't signaling their attacks well. The shieldmaiden when it's blocking attacks with its shield will end her defensive posture with a "shing sound" and that hurts you. I never noticed her actually attacking -- if there's an animation of her stabbing with her blade or something it's not visible enough. The cerberus, when lounging, is able to hurt you even if it doesn't actually connect -- I was hurt by one bumping against a crate I was using for cover, for example. So it seems that it has a radius damage effect when doing that, too, which could be shown by an aura of flames or something. As is, it just looks like a collision detection bug.

I apologize because my feedback tends to focus on the negative and nitpicky things. I'm terrible at praising the things I like! I did enjoy it a lot overall, except for the end parts of MAP06 and MAP10. The levels are wonderfully detailed and coherent, it does truly seem like an consistent world we're exploring, and combat against the mooks is very satisfying. The axe is especially fun to throw (it's just too bad we can't dual-wield to have two to throw in a row) so much that I kinda underused the other weapons until the massed battles of the last level.

Cool, glad to have more feedback!
The timed platforming in the fire section has been changed in 1.1.0 - now all the platforms move at the same time, so no more need to wait for them to sync.
Regarding platforming in general, air control has been doubled, making it easier to adjust your position while in the air.
It's good you found workarounds for not having the Air Figurine, I intentionally allowed room for that (rocket jumping is fine too, afaik there's no place in game where you could break it if you rocket or lance jump).

I made some little adjustments for the Nithriel "stealth" segment, but the bulk if it remain the same. I really need to put emphasis on her meaning absolute business and get the player tense. On easier difficulties there aren't as many clones, but on normal and hard I think I'll stick to how it is right now.

The boss fights are a complicated thing. First of all, I've had people who absolutely loved them and absolutely hated them. Secondly, if you know what you're doing these fights can become downright trivial.
One thing I did was add 4 extra Haste Potions for the final boss which should help dish out damage faster when his adds are dead and you enter sort of a grind segment until the next phase comes around. But imagine if someone barges in on the easier difficulties with 6 angry orcs that start shooting him - he'll be dead before he gets to kill half of them. It's not how you're supposed to fight him, but that's the entire point of Hedon - to reward players for being creative and resourceful.
As for Nithriel, I find the fight to be pretty well adjusted, considering difficulty modifiers and all, so I doubt I'm going to change much. Once again I've had people melting down over the first phase, and people who used that Potion of Might (which by the way, in 1.1.0 sits on a pedestal sort of thing, which should make it look more important and help the player link it to having to use it).
I know the inventory isn't the friendliest thing in the world, but again - it rewards people who use it or press F1 or learn the hotkeys or read the main menu tips or the gameplay manual and so on.

Regarding the monsters, well, Iron Maiden have their attack animations fleshed out, but they keep their shield up while attacking so it's not super obvious that they're doing it. They also recoil back and forth as they stab you, but I don't think I can do more than that. Either way, the player should never want to get close to them
With the Cerberus explosion I wanted to emulate how even if they jump and miss you, if they were close enough one of the side heads could get a passing bite at you. However I can see how this can look glitchy in your case, so I'll try to either reduce the radius or find another way to do it.

Oh and good thing you brought up the dormant Golems, that issue should be fixed now! (I forgot that players could use the elevator before opening the shutter to the library which normally activated them).

Thanks a lot, glad you liked it and don't worry about focusing on "negative" feedback, that helps me a lot more than the positive one at the end of the day!