Operation: Arctic Wolf Revisited (v. 3.0)

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Re: Operation: Arctic Wolf Revisited (RELEASE)

Postby CeeJay » Mon Sep 14, 2020 11:52 am

New and improved version now finally available for download.

http://www.mediafire.com/file/5e3s6asgj ... 0.zip/file

Only took three years. Enjoy!
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Re: Operation: Arctic Wolf Revisited (v. 3.0)

Postby CeeJay » Wed May 12, 2021 2:05 pm

Version 3.0 !

More special effects, balancing tweaks, additional and improved hints, lots of new/replaced sound effects, more scaled/HD textures and one new weapon.

Enjoy.
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Re: Operation: Arctic Wolf Revisited (v. 3.0)

Postby Tormentor667 » Mon May 17, 2021 10:51 am

I’d wish there is a GZDoom version :)
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Re: Operation: Arctic Wolf Revisited (v. 3.0)

Postby CeeJay » Mon May 17, 2021 11:43 am

Thank you for bumping the thread with those kind encouraging words.
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Re: Operation: Arctic Wolf Revisited (v. 3.0)

Postby SiFi270 » Mon May 17, 2021 2:35 pm

For the past few days, this has been like a book I can't put down. I hope one day you might have the time and motivation to do something similar for the other WolfenDooms.

I've previously been reluctant (but more open than some, and I swear I'm not just directing that comment at the latest example) to use EDGE just because of how loud my computer fan seemed to get while running it. But right now it all seems fine after I decided I'd rather be playing most things at 640x480. The point I'm trying to get to here is, I think there should be a thread that lists your projects, along with the version of EDGE each version is best suited for and whether they're in progress, finished, or abandoned. I'm not sure if that'd be better suited for here, Doomworld, or both.
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Re: Operation: Arctic Wolf Revisited (v. 3.0)

Postby ZikShadow » Tue May 18, 2021 11:31 am

Tormentor667 wrote:I’d wish there is a GZDoom version :)

There's always this: viewtopic.php?f=19&t=66127

Personally, I think redux mods for WolfenDoom are very fascinating, though the note on zero changes on the levels'll unfortunately deter me from trying this out. The various mandatory secrets laden throughout the depths of classic WolfenDoom maps ruins any chance of me leaving it with any sense of accomplishment, mainly 'cause I'll probably have to cheat just to figure out where to go next only to have an unmarked wall or elevator be the actual way to progress. It's like the opposite with Blade of Agony. Where that mod'll happily put exclamation mark signs all over the place just so players won't get lost, the old WolfenDooms actively hinder progress with mandatory secrets up the wazoo. Not my cup of tea.

The original Arctic Wolf was a particularly strong example where you have to deal with metric tons of nonsense just to progress, like with the dam revisited map where you're blocked by barrels and had to use a wall that previously didn't do anything in the initial infiltration map.
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Re: Operation: Arctic Wolf Revisited (v. 3.0)

Postby CeeJay » Tue May 18, 2021 12:10 pm

SiFi270 wrote:For the past few days, this has been like a book I can't put down. I hope one day you might have the time and motivation to do something similar for the other WolfenDooms.

I've previously been reluctant (but more open than some, and I swear I'm not just directing that comment at the latest example) to use EDGE just because of how loud my computer fan seemed to get while running it. But right now it all seems fine after I decided I'd rather be playing most things at 640x480. The point I'm trying to get to here is, I think there should be a thread that lists your projects, along with the version of EDGE each version is best suited for and whether they're in progress, finished, or abandoned. I'm not sure if that'd be better suited for here, Doomworld, or both.


Thanks.

I currently have no plans of updating his other WolfenDOOM scenarios. I was thinking of doing Operation: Rheingold at one point but seeing as he never finished that series I see little point and most of his other scenarios haven't aged too well. Who knows, I may revisit the idea of updating Rheingold someday.

I try to keep the compatibility of my mods in the range of EDGE 1.35 and onwards. The recomended version would be any of the two stable releases, 1.35 and 2.0.4 Final. Whichever one works best for the users hardware.

You probably should have a look at your fan.

ZikShadow wrote:Personally, I think redux mods for WolfenDoom are very fascinating, though the note on zero changes on the levels'll unfortunately deter me from trying this out. The various mandatory secrets laden throughout the depths of classic WolfenDoom maps ruins any chance of me leaving it with any sense of accomplishment, mainly 'cause I'll probably have to cheat just to figure out where to go next only to have an unmarked wall or elevator be the actual way to progress. It's like the opposite with Blade of Agony. Where that mod'll happily put exclamation mark signs all over the place just so players won't get lost, the old WolfenDooms actively hinder progress with mandatory secrets up the wazoo. Not my cup of tea.

The original Arctic Wolf was a particularly strong example where you have to deal with metric tons of nonsense just to progress, like with the dam revisited map where you're blocked by barrels and had to use a wall that previously didn't do anything in the initial infiltration map.


I had to leave the level changes to an absolute minimum for obivous reasons. I tagged a lot of the secrets properly (this was before I decided on not using the intermission), fixed some issues and added the mirror effect along with making some of the keys more visible from a distance. And then implemented scripts for giving context to certain maps and in some cases to guide the player.

Sure, I could in theory also plaster arrows and exclamation marks all over the place but that ain't my cup of tea. Maybe I'm just old-fashioned but I prefer exploring and figuring things out for myself, it feels more rewarding that way. Having it constantly tell you where to go and what to do next defeats the purpose, it might aswell be a rail-shooter in that case. At least that's how I feel.
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Re: Operation: Arctic Wolf Revisited (v. 3.0)

Postby ZikShadow » Tue May 18, 2021 1:01 pm

CeeJay wrote:Sure, I could in theory also plaster arrows and exclamation marks all over the place but that ain't my cup of tea. Maybe I'm just old-fashioned but I prefer exploring and figuring things out for myself, it feels more rewarding that way. Having it constantly tell you where to go and what to do next defeats the purpose, it might aswell be a rail-shooter in that case. At least that's how I feel.


I very much concur, it was actually a complaint of mine that BoA went too far in the other direction. They even pulled a mandatory secret as well in Operation Paris that only really got off easy because they put a mark there, the encapsulation of perfect imbalance that went too far in both directions.

However, that argument of yours regarding "figuring things out on your own being rewarding" ends up falling apart with mapsets that are designed with mandatory secrets in mind. Because at the end of the day, you're not actually using your mind to "figure things out", it all eventually all boils down to players humping walls or trying to think of the wildest possible permutation to guess where the next completely unmarked mandatory secret wall/elevator is. Sometimes, the progression gets so obscure and arbitrary, it's gone to the point where it's absurd. Like an unmarked secret wall necessary to progress that won't open normally, but requires you walking around in circles until you cross a random line that then opens that wall, with zero indication to the player that something opened, too! That's not good level design, that's wasting the player's time. I detested the Nocturnal Missions & the Spear of Destiny Mission Packs exactly because of this reason. To the point where I helped CantSleep on his WolfenDoom Redux here viewtopic.php?f=19&t=68093 specifically because of its mission to exterminate all mandatory secrets from existing maps. I'd probably recommend people play that instead of the original NM/SODMPs.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/ ... 202348.png
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/ ... 202357.png
I could go on regarding inconsistencies, like this wall here by the dam that I spoke about earlier not being usable previously, but then usable in the next map for absolutely no apparent reason, but I could be here all day.

I won't say what mappers can or can't do. If there's a mapset with mandatory secrets, I won't do a strop but then keep playing and find more things to whine about, I'll just bin the idea of playing that mapset and move on. However, I will say that there's a subtle balance in navigation that mappers and players sometimes miss over or don't care about. Games like Half-Life and even Doom often use these "subtle signposting" methods to lead the player without feeling like they're being handheld the whole way, and I feel that it is the best approach one can do when making maps. Colored monitors in an otherwise flat environment that meant that you can use it, colored handles on doors and padlocks to indicate which doors require which key or if it can't be opened at all, even the use of lights to nudge players to look at something that stands out. It's just like real life architecture, you can make an environment look pretty, but it's useless if no one can find their way in it.
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Re: Operation: Arctic Wolf Revisited (v. 3.0)

Postby CeeJay » Tue May 18, 2021 1:22 pm

No I'm not really a huge fan of mandatory secrets either to be honest, espcecially ones that aren't even marked properly. I wouldn't claim any of Laz's maps are perfect, far from it. He does seem to rely a bit too much on the player having to go back and forth through the level a lot (backtracking). Hit a switch towards the latter part of the level which opens a door back at the start of the level which contains a key that opens a door back at the latter part of the level, as an example. But I still have a soft spot and nostalgia for some of his work, and since I'm so familiar with his maps these things don't bother me too much.

And yes, sublte guideposts in the form of texture choices, lighting, etc is a a sign of good mapping in my book. But when a great big "neon sign" is used to guide the player, it kinda goes too far the other way like you said. Treating the player like a moron that has an attention span of a five-year old.
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Re: Operation: Arctic Wolf Revisited (v. 3.0)

Postby ZikShadow » Tue May 18, 2021 1:36 pm

Ah, I don't really mind backtracking, so long as it's made interesting with more enemies and not just an empty walk back to front. I remember a Half-Life 2 mod where a bunch of mappers collaborated together in order to create a set of maps specifically with the challenge to make backtracking not a complete slog.

https://www.runthinkshootlive.com/posts/backtrackville/
It might be of interest.

Pretty much the only WolfenDoom entry from Laz that I genuinely liked from start to finish is Rheingold, and even that still had its shenanigans like the crate next to the vent that isn't given any indication to the player that they can climb on top of it. The rest from Arctic Wolf, Totenhaus, Eisenmann, Halten, and so on suffered immensely from mandatory secret syndrome. I just can't in my heart recommend anyone play any of them.
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