Memoirs of Magic: Full Game is Now Avaliable!

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Re: Memoirs of Magic: Demo is Now Avaliable!

Postby PlayerLin » Wed Jan 31, 2018 6:53 am

TheStrawberryOctopus wrote:They are already signs like that in the game inside shops. Originally I was going to turn the F1 key into a credits page, but... they are credits at the end of the game too, so I am not too sure what I could use it for...

Captain J wrote:Maybe add some artwork or pics of MoM? I know it's gonna help anything but hey, that would be best. Or probably add HUD information into them or something!


Like something in your NC mod? That one is good!

Yes, lot of game information are in the library, but as I remember, there is no in-game prompt about the where is the library when/after the game starts(I'm not sure there is a sign or something on outside of library), unless someone just found the library and read shit, then I'm sure most of players may not be know about the existence of library, or even they found that, maybe just tired of read texts and skip them, and just go everywhere and do finger shit out by themselves...:P
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Re: Memoirs of Magic: Demo is Now Avaliable!

Postby TheStrawberryOctopus » Wed Jan 31, 2018 9:47 am

PlayerLin wrote:there is no in-game prompt about the where is the library when/after the game starts(I'm not sure there is a sign or something on outside of library), unless someone just found the library and read shit, then I'm sure most of players may not be know about the existence of library, or even they found that, maybe just tired of read texts and skip them, and just go everywhere and do finger shit out by themselves...:P


It should be noted that Princess Essay tells you about the library if you talk to her. I am aware that my mod is probably a tad more text heavy then usual projects, but I think you can see why!

(Despite some of these things though, I hope you are all enjoying the project. All this information you have been giving me has been really helpful,and I plan to tweak a bunch of this stuff as soon as I am done with my birthday break!)
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Re: Memoirs of Magic: Demo is Now Avaliable!

Postby Captain J » Wed Jan 31, 2018 10:06 am

Glad we can help, and we do enjoying this project so far. The overall gameplay never gets old! Well, despite it's still incomplete. Looking forward to it.
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Re: Memoirs of Magic: Demo is Now Avaliable!

Postby PlayerLin » Thu Feb 01, 2018 11:20 am

TheStrawberryOctopus wrote:It should be noted that Princess Essay tells you about the library if you talk to her. I am aware that my mod is probably a tad more text heavy then usual projects, but I think you can see why!

(Despite some of these things though, I hope you are all enjoying the project. All this information you have been giving me has been really helpful,and I plan to tweak a bunch of this stuff as soon as I am done with my birthday break!)


Silly me just mislook her message when talking Princess Essay...but you know, some players may just skip them...and I'm not surprised if that happens. :P

Still, I'm trying finger out how to play the TC, but I just don't have enough time to try more(have other shit needed to care, Real-Life™ and other games...too many shit needed to do, too less time I can use...), I do enjoying the TC so just keep working on it, looking forward the next update. :)
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Re: Memoirs of Magic: Demo is Now Avaliable!

Postby dawnbreez » Fri Feb 02, 2018 5:45 pm

The demo looks really, *really* cool.

The only problem is I just can't manage the combat. I'm not sure if I'm supposed to be relying on melee, or using my preciously limited MP and AP everywhere, and the Ghost enemies are driving me insane.
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Re: Memoirs of Magic: Demo is Now Avaliable!

Postby Captain J » Fri Feb 02, 2018 11:14 pm

Well you probably can fight the ghosts with long ranged weapons instead of melee weapons. Trust me, they're more useful than you think, when you use potions often. And Speaking of which, Powered up Cleric's gun is absolutely OP and has no limit whatsoever.
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Re: Memoirs of Magic: Demo is Now Avaliable!

Postby Joat » Sun Feb 04, 2018 2:22 am

I have played this mod for a relative brief enough time (reaching partway through the first "dungeon") that I initially felt it far too early to post. However, then I realized that a first-impressions perspective is very important. So yes, I realize that these things may be proven wrong or clarified later in the game, but I'm trying to give an impression of what my initial experiences with the game are.

  • First impressions from the title screen and the opening cutscene are good. The overall feel of the interface reminds me very much of the genesis Shining Force games. And any day where I can compare something to the Shining Force games is a good day.
  • Also, the knight's portrait is adorable. I couldn't not play as him.
  • I like the library in theory, though it would be nice if it were a bit clearer where to go if you simply want tips on your own starting weapons, in some way. Also, I'm not clear on what the crimes are that are possible. I'm guessing attacking townsfolk is one, but I'm way too soft to try it. But in any case, it actually did make me feel on edge, knowing that there are crimes but not knowing what they are. For example, I was worried I'd be committing a crime by grabbing that fancy blue book in the library.
  • Also, what is the Book of Diplomacy supposed to do? It made a sound when I used it. Did I do a good? Does it improve the effectiveness of my ten Diplomacies? Or diplomas? They look like diplomas. To be fair, though, I don't know what I would have made "Diplomacy" look like as an item.
  • Also, a book on what the Blink key does would be appreciated. I have no idea, though I'm reasonably certain it works nothing like in Alone in the Dark.
  • I like that all the important buildings in the starting kingdom look distinctive... but sadly the tavern is an exception. Not really sure why. I mean, yes, it looks distinctive-ISH, but I didn't notice it at first. I only found it when I was searching around thinking "there's GOT to be a shop around here SOMEWHERE".
  • I like the tavern, though. Having the other characters around in there is a nice touch.
  • I'm guessing the Magical Emporium is either not useful in this demo or not useful at the start. Either way, I'd like it to be clearer. I spent a few frustrated minutes of gameplay trying to figure out what I was missing, before finally concluding that there was probably genuinely nothing to see.
  • Also, I still have yet to find that shop. Is there none? If so, that seems like an odd decision, because enemies don't seem to drop potions. The closest I can find is pigs dropping meat. And I found a pie later on.
  • If there is no shop, that should be made clearer. The NPCs don't make it clear. I'd say roughly half of my time playing this demo so far was spent scouring the town trying to figure out exactly where the shop was. That's not an exaggeration. I can be entirely too persistent at times.
  • One reason I bring up the shop stuff is because it feels like, at least for the knight, I ended up chugging potions like I'd just eaten the world's hottest pepper and they were the only beverage around. Which is bad when there is no apparent way to find/make/buy more potions (until presumably somewhere down the road).
  • I readily admit that a one major reason for the above was that I was, at the beginning, rather horrid at fighting in melee (which, I know, makes my choice of class ironic). However, in the beginning, I feel that the game should be built under the impression that the player doesn't really know what they're doing, especially if there are no difficulty levels (this would be more forgivable if those were a thing).
  • Another reason for my wasteful use of potions was that I didn't realize that random encounters could be fled from without either (a) the map becoming a mess of accumulated enemies or (b) becoming woefully underpowered when the game expected me to be more powerful/rich than I ended up being. In fact, I didn't know they were random at all, until I looked at this thread to see what I might be doing wrong.
  • Even once I wised up and started using melee better and fighting only the necessary battles, I'd already used up enough potions that I found myself in a situation where it was easier to start all over rather than try to keep going with my current game state. I hesitate to call this a "dead character walking" trap, because the game was still technically beatable, but still, I pretty much wised up at the beginning of the graveyard, while I was a tidy chunk into the graveyard before I realized I'd kinda screwed myself over and had to start all over, which was...
    not fun, suffice to say. This is a reason I feel that an early shop is necessary, even if a basic one. I had plenty of gold. If I were allowed to buy more potions, I could perhaps have salvaged things and not had to start all over.
  • In theory, I wouldn't have minded the above if it were guaranteed that people would go straight to the first dungeon. But then there are people like me, who decided to go exploring due to lack of knowing that it's a bad idea. And it really felt at first like the game wanted me to want to explore. So as a result, I lost a fair bit of time when I had to restart. Which, again... not fun.

If you take only one thing away from this, let it be this: I feel you should balance the start of the game under the assumption that the player has no idea what they're doing, because chances are good that they, like me, don't.

Or, I dunno, maybe I'm an outlier. I don't see many complaints like that from others, so maybe I'm just especially terrible at this. But hopefully my feedback will still help at least somewhat.
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Re: Memoirs of Magic: Demo is Now Avaliable!

Postby Terensworth » Sun Feb 04, 2018 11:18 am

Joat wrote:


Thank you for your post, I wanted to make an account to voice my concerns about this mod and felt alone with it, nice to see someone else with a similiar opinion.
Buckle up, though, I chew the scenary alot.

Now, as for my take on the demo, listen, when it comes to visuals, sound, music, all of the eye and ear candy... It's all perfect, it has great flavour to it and I honestly find myself wanting to play the mod solely for feeling that funky snessy/Golden Sunny vibe from it.

Now... I have by now seen you warning us about the combat being hard, I have now seen the king's advisor [who I may have forgotten the name of, sorry big lips!] warning me about not having a way to get potions and such until later, I have seen the warnings... And I still think the difficulty is a bit unfair from a new player's perspective.
I won't claim I'm the best Doom player by any stretch, let alone with melee, but it feels like the game is not designed with some of the playable characters' short ranged melee weapons in mind.
Now, I don't know the name of the enemies beyond the thieves being goblins, so I'll try to be informative with what I have.

- The Goblins are hideously fast and difficult to hit, I... THINK the only way to hit em reliably is with your ranged weapons [which, unless you picked the gunslinger or sorcerer, you have super limited ammo for] during the split second that they land after hopping or some spells [the warrior's freezing spell]. This is NOT good before you reach Treetop Village, because until then, your AP is limited to whatever potions you have at the time and that's it. And your spells are not always a reliable way to solve this, especially since, with how early the game is, how important gold is and how utterly painful the upcoming dungeon is, you can't afford to lose too many potions or AP on just the road to the dungeon, as short as it is, and as easy as it is to avoid enemies.
Yes, you can warn us to put our gold in the bank or that we should just book it to the first dungeon with no stops but that's not a solution, that's avoiding the problem, I'm not saying put EVERYTHING in front of the player at the beginning, I'm saying give the player something to help him ease into the game, plus, what kind of an adventurer are we that a simple goblin thief will just wipe the floor with us due to godly teleportation abilities that we cannot have?

-The... Ropers I call them, weird tentacle things that go invisible... These things are absurd, look, by the time you face these you are probably out of AP cause you wasted it all trying to hit the thieves on your way to the first dungeon in hopes of there being any way to refill it. Either that or just starting out and you have the mispleasure of meeting these things, they're ridiculous, not only do they change their movement pace when they're invisible, but they hurt you the second you're close enough, which means that fighting them melee will just make you lose health, not necessarily alot, but this is another resource you can't afford to lose too much of, as health potions are insanely expensive and you can't just keep running back to town or a tent whenever you get a scabby boo boo.
In hindsight, I'm not sure if you can get more ham from the castle to help with healing, but the point of my complaint here is that these Ropers are WAY too difficult to kill for what they are, between turning invisible, speeding up, you needing to avoid contacting them and... Well ,they also have a pretty substantial health pool... It's just not a cool enemy.

So yeah, you got two enemies that you are forced to fight with your spells, which are usually expensive to cast, or your alchemy weapons, which you have NO way to get more ammo for until you reach Treetop Village, and that's my main concern here, you are warned that you have to savor what you have until Treetop Village... So why is the road there long and full of frustration? Challenge and frustration are not the same thing, you can make the ropers challenging by having them use their invisibility to get close and block your shots from hitting the ghosts while having a wind up before they begin to damage you, or maybe have the thieves be near impossible to hit up until they're close enough to pounce you, but after the pounce, they're tired and need a sec to get up. Anything like that. The most well designed enemy I've seen in the game so far is the most basic skeleton because they have a clear attack range, they stop for a second after swinging and heck, they sometimes flop their attack and juuuust miss you with their swing, dunno if that's on purpose, but that's not a bad thing. You don't get close to them willy nilly, you wait for them to strike and then counter, and no other enemy has this.
I'm not saying every enemy needs a strict counter, I'm saying you should not let the enemies that don't have counters be so numerous AND only be reliably combatable by way of ammo you have no way to get back in a pinch in the first... I dunno, hour of the game [seriously, it took me a while to reach Treetop].

My whining over difficulty aside, I love this mod, I want to see more, and I wish you luck on any improvements and additions made.
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Re: Memoirs of Magic: Demo is Now Avaliable!

Postby Joat » Sun Feb 04, 2018 4:03 pm

I have yet to play further (I'm on my laptop, which I don't use an external mouse for and this mod doesn't strike me as one that would handle a pure-keyboard approach all that well), but I did think of a few other things to say:

  • I like the riddle in the first dungeon. Not hard enough to be unreasonable, but just enough that I felt smart for figuring it out.
  • Someone said earlier that things felt too spaced out. I personally like it that way, actually, but I get the feeling I'm an outlier.
  • That said, perhaps the complaint could be mitigated by adding some more objects scattered about to make the area more visually dynamic, such as rocks. This might also make the game easier for melee classes early on, by giving them more things to throw.
  • I have a horrid memory, so forgive me if this is incorrect. But as far as the rolling foes go (caterkillers, I think they were called?), I don't think I recall them having any significant visual indication of how wide their radius of attack is.
  • Also, I can't believe I forgot to say this. I have no idea what SP is for. I got it to 100, so I guess that's... good, maybe? I mean, 100 is an A+, so I guess that isn't bad.
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Re: Memoirs of Magic: Demo is Now Avaliable!

Postby TheStrawberryOctopus » Sun Feb 04, 2018 5:47 pm

Captain J wrote:Well you probably can fight the ghosts with long ranged weapons instead of melee weapons. Trust me, they're more useful than you think, when you use potions often. And Speaking of which, Powered up Cleric's gun is absolutely OP and has no limit whatsoever.


You have to define "Powered Up". At LVL3, the gun is extremely useful, yes, and it has one of the best Alt Ammo Attacks in the game. The Downside to this is the Mana count for the normal alt attack, and the alt ammo account costs a lot of gold just to buy a single shot!

Terensworth wrote:

Joat wrote:


I will try and answer as much as these to the best of my ability!
- I may just remove the goblins from the start of the game and have them appear after clearing the first Dungeon in the full game release. They may be too difficult to handle as the first enemy players are likely to encounter. Either that, or I tweak their dodging values or something.
- I May also have to add in a delay for the ropers to damage you when they get close to you. It may not be much of a delay, but I can tell as soon as I add that, people will just begin meleeing them. Maybe I could tweak their health values some what to half of what it currently is?
- The Caterkillers have a small attack radius when rolling, but they have a large knock back radius, which is used to knock you away when they hit you and get you off of platforms you can use to try and exploit their weaknesses!
- I may considering sprinkling a few AP potions through out the first area, or just outright giving players and extra potion at the start. The Latter means that every player would have more at the start, but my main concern is this will only help with the first play through of the area, and would drastically lower its difficulty on repeat play through.
- SP Stands for Summon Points. They do have a use in this mod, which is a spoiler!
Spoiler:

- Diplomacy is a special Stat for the Hawkman, which based on the amount you have, gives him discounts at the Shop. so 10 Diplomacy = 10% Discount. The Hawkman has another trait in that he can get Gold Interest in the bank every 30 minutes, basically giving him bonus gold of 10% of what is currently in the Bank Vault (so 1000 gold means you get +100 gold.)
- I am pretty sure Thesis, the Crystal Ball Lady, DOES say that you can not buy anything until you get to the next village. I am not sure why a lot of people miss this, but I may have to make it even more obvious. The reason why the shop is the way it is, is because when you begin unlocking the shops, I wanted people to feel like they were making progress in some old adventure game. But I guess I have to make that a bit more obvious, which I am a little concerned may spoil that feel.
- I may have to have NPCs tell the player that fighting in the Overworld is optional, so that people don't waste their resources there.

I think thats covers everything, but tell me if they was anything urgent I missed and I will answer it. I will definitely tweak stuff, but my main concern is the game may end up too easy. A lot of these tweaks will MOST LIKELY only affect the first area too, since while I can understand the game being difficult at the start at its current state, I do expect players to play more wisely once they have access to the shop. I do understand a lot of these concerns, but I do hope when people ask for things to be fixed, they are saying this due to legitimate difficult reasons, and not because they are purposely glossing over things. That's not an insult to the people giving me critique, however, but I am slightly afraid that If I tweak too much, all the challenge will be deflated. That is an issue with similar games of this genre (System Shock 2 and BioShock come to mind!)

BASICALLY, what I am saying is this. While the game is difficult, I do hope that people are playing wisely while making these critiques. Once again, I am not complaining about people struggling, but it reminds me of instances where people who played Dark Souls for the first time had difficulty with the skeletons in the starting area of it. I also don't want to spell everything out to every to remove some of the adventurous aspects of the game. Thats just some of my thoughts, however; Its a bit hard to balance some of these suggestions, as it varies from person to person, so I will try my best!

EDIT: ALSO, just a small note, I am not saying this the DARK SOULS of FPS Game, haha; I always hate it when people use that to describe difficult games. I but I do think the Skeletons in the Grave Yard analogy is pretty good, since a lot of people did that sequence and were too stubborn to realize that they probably shouldn't be there yet. I just really hope some of the concerns are not stemming from a similar experience!
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Re: Memoirs of Magic: Demo is Now Avaliable!

Postby Joat » Sun Feb 04, 2018 7:03 pm

I feel that, between extra potions to start with and more potions sprinkled around, the latter would be preferable, because that's less likely to result in a nigh "dead character walking" state like I had. It'll also give the impression early on that the potions need to be conserved carefully, while making the penalty for not realizing this right away less of a death sentence (because they'll be able to get more potions after learning their lesson the hard way, thus not as likely having to restart). If anything, I'd recommend starting with fewer potions, instead having the other potions be spread around to find in the starting area and first dungeon. It'll also give more incentive to explore and create more variety in the types of treasure one can find.

I did readily admit that a lot of my difficulty in the starting part of the game was due to not knowing what I'm doing. So yes, my problem was very similar to the skeletons experience many had while playing Dark Souls. However, I still stand by what I said, for two reasons:
  • Dark Souls having the skeleton area is pretty much fine, because that's the sort of game it's trying to be. But as you yourself said, Memoirs of Magic is not trying to be Dark Souls. What's perfectly fine in Dark Souls isn't necessarily a good idea for Memoirs of Magic.
  • More importantly and specifically, though, the problem with that sort of thing here is primarily due to a difference in game mechanics. Dark Souls has Estus Flasks. Say what you will about the difficulty of Dark Souls, but by the very nature of Estus Flasks, you'll never end up having to restart the game due to unwise consumption of them, because they're restored whenever you are at a bonfire (which, conveniently enough, is where you go when you die). I, meanwhile, had to restart the game because I had no way of getting those lost potions back otherwise. I wasn't too stubborn to realize that I needed to run away from random battles to start with, but I realized that too late, and didn't realize I'd screwed myself over until even later. And that's perhaps the worst part: someone can end up in a state where they go on for a fair while longer before realizing they basically lost the game a fair while ago. Again, I feel that spreading potions out rather than front-loading them can help with this.

Also, I'd recommend having SP be invisible until it comes into play. It'll help to avoid confusion.
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Re: Memoirs of Magic: Demo is Now Avaliable!

Postby TheStrawberryOctopus » Sun Feb 04, 2018 8:32 pm

Joat wrote:


Hmm. I will figure out a way to sprinkle out Alchemy at the start. I do have a few ideas; Maybe the inclusion of such things would negate a few of the complaints?

Also, ONLY the hawkman starts with 10 alchemy potions. They is a specific reason why; due to his stats, he does not get to fire his machine gun a lot. This basically means at the start of the game, he has a less of a rough time compared to other characters. This luxury however does not extend to the rest of the game, and as already stated, this only applies to the hawkman!
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Re: Memoirs of Magic: Demo is Now Avaliable!

Postby Naniyue » Sun Feb 04, 2018 11:39 pm

I LOVE MY MoM!!!! The Shining series meets DooM!
I love those little hopping piggies! I had to hunt them to survive, though.
Only two complaints:
The first can't be fixed, which is low fps in large, populated areas on toasted potatoes.
The other is that a couple of monsters right in the beginning forest flash in and out of existence. I can take them down, but their teleporting ability feels like it should come into play after one has gained a level or two.

Thank you for the demo! I very, VERY much look forward to the final product! Let us know when you're ready to enter it into the Cacowards! You've got my vote!
Last edited by Naniyue on Mon Feb 05, 2018 1:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Memoirs of Magic: Demo is Now Avaliable!

Postby Captain J » Mon Feb 05, 2018 12:38 am

Naniyue wrote:The first can't be fixed, which is low fps in large, populated areas on toasted potatoes.
Sadly this thing still happens. I guess upgrading our computer could handle this problem. Maybe?

In castle, there's A LOT of people for some reason! It barely shows smooth fps. But nothing is serious, tho.
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Re: Memoirs of Magic: Demo is Now Avaliable!

Postby Terensworth » Mon Feb 05, 2018 1:56 am

TheStrawberryOctopus wrote:
- I may just remove the goblins from the start of the game and have them appear after clearing the first Dungeon in the full game release. They may be too difficult to handle as the first enemy players are likely to encounter. Either that, or I tweak their dodging values or something.
- I May also have to add in a delay for the ropers to damage you when they get close to you. It may not be much of a delay, but I can tell as soon as I add that, people will just begin meleeing them. Maybe I could tweak their health values some what to half of what it currently is?
- I am pretty sure Thesis, the Crystal Ball Lady, DOES say that you can not buy anything until you get to the next village. I am not sure why a lot of people miss this, but I may have to make it even more obvious. The reason why the shop is the way it is, is because when you begin unlocking the shops, I wanted people to feel like they were making progress in some old adventure game. But I guess I have to make that a bit more obvious, which I am a little concerned may spoil that feel.
- I may have to have NPCs tell the player that fighting in the Overworld is optional, so that people don't waste their resources there.


My main complaints really are those two enemies, I mean, in the Misty Woods, you constantly have to face Ropers in close quarters, it is impossible to get through without taking unnecessary damage, especially since you have TWO big hordes of enemies to fight in two important areas.
And yes, Thesis DOES say so, I believe I mentioned that I saw her talking about it, the problem isn't in not being told, it's in it not being a good idea for the start of the game. Throwing some AP potions is a great idea or... Hey, maybe an herb that can drop randomly from slashing grass that recovers some AP? Not too often, of course, but... It will certainly give more credence to doing it, and it might add in a little Zelda-esque wonder... Not that the mod needs it!

See... I don't think it's a good idea to have people in the town tell you "DO NOT FIGHT ON YOUR WAY TO THE FIRST DUNGEON" or... "FIGHTING ON YOUR WAY TO A GOAL ISN'T ALWAYS THE SOLUTION!" cause... That really kills the fantasy, I may be talking stupid unimportant stuff but... Lets imagine you take the Reptilian Warrior... you are now this huge buff dude with a giant axe... And you are told to avoid combat on your very first steps of the game, isn't that kind of weird? To me, having a little power fantasy is crucial in these class based games, for example, lets say I take the Fighter in vanilla Hexen... Because I wanna feel the weight of swinging a powerful axe. Not the best example [for many reasons] but I hope the idea comes across well.

- Nerfing ropers? Great idea.
- Removing Goblins until you have a reliable way of restoring AP? Even better!

So yeah, my gripes were answered, I just hope your vision of these enemies or how the mod should feel at the start won't be harmed by my opinions on it.
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