[Blade of Agony] New screenshots | p179

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Re: [Blade of Agony] New screenshots | p179

Postby jazzmaster9 » Mon Nov 18, 2019 4:36 am

Again its just my two cents.
I dont claim to know anything about localization. But at the
same time im not gonna try claim someones effort is not "worth the delay" because thats up to the author.

If you, the Author, feel its not ready, dont release it is the way I go about modding
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Re: [Blade of Agony] New screenshots | p179

Postby Graf Zahl » Mon Nov 18, 2019 5:23 am

Here's the problem: Never *EVER* say such a thing to a perfectionist. :P You'll never get a finished product - because there's always something that can be improved or the next cool thing that can be added. The real art of releasing is to find the sweet spot between perfection and "good enough" so that perfection doesn't drag the whole thing down.
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Re: [Blade of Agony] New screenshots | p179

Postby Rachael » Mon Nov 18, 2019 6:48 am

Graf Zahl wrote:The real art of releasing is to find the sweet spot between perfection and "good enough" so that perfection doesn't drag the whole thing down.

Usually for me that's right about the time that I get sick of working on it. :P
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Re: [Blade of Agony] New screenshots | p179

Postby jazzmaster9 » Mon Nov 18, 2019 11:35 am

Graf Zahl wrote:Here's the problem: Never *EVER* say such a thing to a perfectionist. :P You'll never get a finished product - because there's always something that can be improved or the next cool thing that can be added. The real art of releasing is to find the sweet spot between perfection and "good enough" so that perfection doesn't drag the whole thing down.


Perfection should always be aimed at.
Im just sick and tired of half baked products that come out nowadays from The game industry that im happy that the modding community exists free of deadlines and restrictions from corporate sponsors
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Re: [Blade of Agony] New screenshots | p179

Postby Graf Zahl » Mon Nov 18, 2019 11:45 am

There is no such thing as perfection. If you want perfection be prepared to be presented with nothing.
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Re: [Blade of Agony] New screenshots | p179

Postby Enjay » Mon Nov 18, 2019 2:20 pm

jazzmaster9 wrote:Perfection should always be aimed at.

Aim for the stars, but settle for the moon. Or...

Graf Zahl wrote:The real art of releasing is to find the sweet spot between perfection and "good enough" so that perfection doesn't drag the whole thing down.

Duke Nukem Forever and Daikatana both failed spectacularly to hit that sweet spot and both suffered from chasing the "next cool thing" that Graf mentioned.

jazzmaster9 wrote:Im just sick and tired of half baked products that come out nowadays from The game industry that im happy that the modding community exists free of deadlines and restrictions from corporate sponsors

Understandable. I think we've all been disappointed by gaming products in one way or another at some point. The exciting "golden age" or magazines with copies of exciting new products on their cover disks coming out every month are long gone. These days we've all seen (and sometimes been taken in) by huge flashy adverts and promises of perfection, and yet experienced mediocre gaming and huge day 1 patches. There are still good games out there and developers who take more care too. Survival tip: don't believe the hype. [and don't pre-order]

And while we have all experienced these problems, this discussion is starting to stray from the topic of the thread - BoA. So let's keep it on topic and civil. Thank you kindly.
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Re: [Blade of Agony] New screenshots | p179

Postby Tormentor667 » Thu Nov 21, 2019 1:17 pm

Graf Zahl wrote:Aren't you getting a bit ambitious here? I've done localization of game projects on my job in the past and I can tell you one thing - it can become a very time consuming task - and we had the budget to buy professional translation and voice acting so the time spent on that was not a big issue. I've also seen how much work it was to get GZDoom localized.

Maybe I was explaining myself not clear enough - we dont plan to localize the audios, only the text messages. All audio will be (or at least is planned) in english.

Graf Zahl wrote:So, I'm sorry to say - but I fear that you are aiming a bit too high here if you want to hold back the release for that. It may be wiser to do an English only release first and then offer the additional languages later as bonus packs - it'd take a lot of pressure off you and the team and give you more time to do it right.

I get your point and after reading all the input in the thread I really consider a different approach. Though I fear that after the release of Chapter 3 of the game, the motivation and engagement will be gone and a voice acting version will never happen after all - which would be sad because it simply isn't my vision of the final project.

Nash wrote:Yes, there are some genuinely talented VAs out there who might do it for free - and may have both the gear and/or treated room - but these are very, very rare, if not already bombarded with 20 different projects. Getting a hold of these people will be difficult - you know how it is, you have experience running an unpaid team. :P

This is what I fear actually. The only hope is to get enough attention on the project now or after the release of Chapter 3... which makes the decision harder again :)

Graf Zahl wrote:There is no such thing as perfection. If you want perfection be prepared to be presented with nothing.

It simply depends on the definition of perfection. In my eyes, perfection of a project is when it is the way you have imagined it. It doesn't have to be technically perfect or perfect in any other apsect. But for me as a developer I need the feeling to say "Yes, that is how I wanted it, or even better". But the problem with larger scale projects is: The first 80% take as much effort as the last 20%.
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Re: [Blade of Agony] New screenshots | p179

Postby Graf Zahl » Thu Nov 21, 2019 1:59 pm

Tormentor667 wrote:
Graf Zahl wrote:Aren't you getting a bit ambitious here? I've done localization of game projects on my job in the past and I can tell you one thing - it can become a very time consuming task - and we had the budget to buy professional translation and voice acting so the time spent on that was not a big issue. I've also seen how much work it was to get GZDoom localized.

Maybe I was explaining myself not clear enough - we dont plan to localize the audios, only the text messages. All audio will be (or at least is planned) in english.


Ok, but you still got to be prepared for delays here unless you know you have translators that can do the job. I think we can get a German translation done, but seeing how hard it was to complete the translation of GZDoom's internal texts I fear that you'll run into problems with the other languages.
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Re: [Blade of Agony] New screenshots | p179

Postby Tormentor667 » Thu Nov 21, 2019 2:46 pm

Well, Ozymandias is a native Italian, DoomJedi can speak Russian and I can do the German. It’s not totally impossible :)
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Re: [Blade of Agony] New screenshots | p179

Postby Kappes Buur » Fri Nov 22, 2019 1:15 am

Tormentor667 wrote:Well, Ozymandias is a native Italian, DoomJedi can speak Russian and I can do the German. It’s not totally impossible :)


If the audio is in english, why not make the text in english as well. Unless of course, the audio is just a superfluous addon and the real intent of the story has to be done with text. Then I just hope the text will not just be printed but done legibly with hudmessages and a decent font.


Graf Zahl wrote:The real art of releasing is to find the sweet spot between perfection and "good enough" so that perfection doesn't drag the whole thing down.


I afraid that the sweet spot has been passed a long time ago, at least for my poor computer. While the maps themselves are graphical and coding master pieces, with some maps running at below 5 fps, they are not really enjoyable.
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Re: [Blade of Agony] New screenshots | p179

Postby Graf Zahl » Fri Nov 22, 2019 1:19 am

I'm sorry to hear that but that's hardly the mods's fault if your system does not meet the required specs. I think this mod will be the trigger for some serious engine optimizations, of course I doubt that a system that already breaks down to 5 fps will benefit from it... ;)
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Re: [Blade of Agony] New screenshots | p179

Postby skdursh » Fri Nov 22, 2019 9:09 am

Kappes Buur wrote:While the maps themselves are graphical and coding master pieces, with some maps running at below 5 fps, they are not really enjoyable.

Just to also chime in concerning fps, even on my 3ish year-old laptop which was only of mid-range quality when I bought it I am able to get at the very least 60+fps at all times in BoA with all the graphical bells and whistles, so you must be running Doom on some really outdated hardware to be dragging along at 5fps, which I'm sorry to say is not the mods fault.
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Re: [Blade of Agony] New screenshots | p179

Postby Curunir » Tue Nov 26, 2019 5:18 pm

skdursh wrote:
Kappes Buur wrote:While the maps themselves are graphical and coding master pieces, with some maps running at below 5 fps, they are not really enjoyable.

Just to also chime in concerning fps, even on my 3ish year-old laptop which was only of mid-range quality when I bought it I am able to get at the very least 60+fps at all times in BoA with all the graphical bells and whistles, so you must be running Doom on some really outdated hardware to be dragging along at 5fps, which I'm sorry to say is not the mods fault.


I'd like to chime in concerning fps as well...

I'm on a desktop, i5 3470, RX 570 4gb, and the second mission of BoA C1 runs at under 30 fps. After getting halfway in, the framerate was so low, I couldn't hit enemies point-blank with a shotgun.

So, forgive me if I don't really believe your 3-year-old laptop can get "at the very least 60 fps", especially "at all times", only because you have an NVidia GPU, especially a mobile one. :wink:

The mod is visually stunning and massive, but it's also quite unplayable on hardware that can play 2019 games at double and triple BoA framerates.
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Re: [Blade of Agony] New screenshots | p179

Postby skdursh » Tue Nov 26, 2019 5:43 pm

Curunir wrote:So, forgive me if I don't really believe your 3-year-old laptop can get "at the very least 60 fps", especially "at all times", only because you have an NVidia GPU, especially a mobile one.


I really don't care if you believe me or not. Maybe there is an issue with your hardware or your settings, but I get smooth 60+fps on my laptop (GTX 1060-6GB, i7-7700HQ, 16GB RAM) all through the mod.
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Re: [Blade of Agony] New screenshots | p179

Postby Curunir » Tue Nov 26, 2019 5:54 pm

skdursh wrote:
Curunir wrote:So, forgive me if I don't really believe your 3-year-old laptop can get "at the very least 60 fps", especially "at all times", only because you have an NVidia GPU, especially a mobile one.


I really don't care if you believe me or not. Maybe there is an issue with your hardware or your settings, but I get smooth 60+fps on my laptop (GTX 1060-6GB, i7-7700HQ, 16GB RAM) all through the mod.


Well, I simply don't, that's all. :D
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