[WIP v1.00] Dark Forces

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Re: [WIP] Dark Forces

Postby CorSair » Sat Mar 23, 2013 7:49 am

Been ages since I've played Dark Forces. Awesome game. Too bad I don't know where the disk is, only manual can be found...

Few notes:
Thermal Detonators don't have the secondary (timed grenade.)
Concussion Rifle... wasn't it a weapon that had special area-of-effect attack that didn't lose much power (if at all) in splash damage? Or do I recall it totally wrong?

Depending on different pwads, some don't offer much of armor bonuses. And green and blue armor only gives one shield unit... Maybe make green give two and blue three?
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Re: [WIP] Dark Forces

Postby niculinux » Sat Mar 23, 2013 8:05 am

great classic of the '90ties, though i never played it...so some brave might want to make dark forces themed maps so add 1 + 1 and i could smell partial (maybe total) converison.. :D
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Re: [WIP] Dark Forces

Postby Ryan Cordell » Sun Mar 24, 2013 5:57 am

As I said, again, enemies in Dark Forces are significantly weaker than the Doom ones. Just as well, the weapons deal significantly less damage. But rest assured, it's coming along slowly but surely.

@CorSair: The thing that bugs me about the Thermal Detonator is that I'm reluctant to add the timed 'nades, since it'll be just another "decorate wall" of inherited actors with modified speed values.
On the Concussion Rifle's note.. Yes, it essentially did spawn massive energy pillars at the enemies. I figured that the best way to replicate it would be to just use A_BFGSpray.

Trust me, if the weapons seem to do little damage, it's because DF has wholesomely different damage values than Doom does. I plan to rectify that with the upcoming enemies.
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Re: [WIP] Dark Forces

Postby wildweasel » Sun Mar 24, 2013 11:16 am

Ryan Cordell wrote:@CorSair: The thing that bugs me about the Thermal Detonator is that I'm reluctant to add the timed 'nades, since it'll be just another "decorate wall" of inherited actors with modified speed values.

Could you not use A_SpawnItemEx instead, I wonder?
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Re: [WIP] Dark Forces

Postby Ryan Cordell » Thu Mar 28, 2013 1:35 pm

Newer version released, containing the following:
Spoiler: Changes as of 28/3/2013


With the additions of those enemies, now it should be more apparent as to why the weapons deal so little damage - because the enemies themselves are weak. Still, the damage for the Packered Mortar shell and the Thermal Detonator are not definite. I still have yet to find the proper damage values.

Nothing was done to the Thermal Detonators' altfire yet. I just wanted to get this patch out before I progress more and not leave people with a mod with little content.

If anyone also by chance has an accurate detailing of the damage values for the Thermal Detonator or enemy HP information, I'll gladly hear them out.

Link is in the first post, as always.

@WildWeasel: I'll consider that for the next version. Thanks for the tip.
@Corsair: The idea is that the mod generally tries to be as faithful to the original as can be, the HOTH Trooper not withstanding. The shields there were of the only kind (excluding Super Shields/Invulnerability), and always gave 20 units.
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Re: [WIP] Dark Forces

Postby darkhaven3 » Thu Mar 28, 2013 8:55 pm

Viscra Maelstrom wrote:finally, you're able to play through The Darkest Hour with proper Dark Forces weapons. :o
although, if the damage-randomization is that bad for the Mortar, why not make weapons deal a set amount of damage rather than randomize it from a set of values?


Because that's not how the weapons behave in DF IIRC
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Re: [WIP] Dark Forces

Postby TheBeardedJedi » Thu Mar 28, 2013 10:31 pm

If you are looking for information on hp and weapon stats for all enemies, then look at part 6.17 of this link:

http://www.gamefaqs.com/pc/3397-star-wa ... /faqs/2031

It will tell you everything you need to know.

Also, Thank You for being one of the first to finally make an accurate depiction of the Dark Forces Weapons and Enemies in zdoom/gzdoom. I have been waiting for a project like this for years :D . Hopefully someone will use this to make an entire Dark Forces TC.
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Re: [WIP] Dark Forces

Postby Valherran » Fri Mar 29, 2013 12:16 am

This mod is pretty good for just starting out, I like this alot. I conquered Dark Forces 1 back in the day, and this game will rock being ported to the Doom engine.
While doing the play testing for this I made a small list of things I saw:

1. If a weapon runs out of ammo all your weapons disappear and you cannot attack with anything anymore.
2. The HUD is missing, probably intentional from what I was reading, but there needs to be a HUD of some kind present though.
3. Damage values of all weapons need to be fixed, they are too random to be effective. I recommend flat numbers to make this more accurate to the original.
4. Fist weapon is missing
5. Hoth Trooper is OP as ****, please tone him down.

Question on unit replacements, what will you put in place of all the monsters?
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Re: [WIP] Dark Forces

Postby Ryan Cordell » Fri Mar 29, 2013 7:52 pm

Thanks, TheBeardedJedi!

@Valherran: Complaints noted and worked on for the next version. However, the idea is that you should be using the Fullscreen hud, not the normal one.
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Re: [WIP] Dark Forces

Postby Eric_ » Fri Mar 29, 2013 8:07 pm

From what I've played thus far there's a pretty major lack of ammo. I found myself running out of blaster ammunition constantly and the aforementioned lack of a fist weapon made things extremely difficult, and not in the good way. This might have to do with enemies only occasionally dropping ammo, whereas they almost always drop ammo in DF. Also, the enemy that replaces the shotgunner dropped a blaster rifle in DF, but he only sometimes drops ammo here.

Other than that, it's looking really good so far. Plays alright with the ancient Star Wars TC until you run into the reskinned cacodemons, since they can eat tons of ammo before dying.
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Re: [WIP] Dark Forces

Postby Valherran » Sun Mar 31, 2013 2:21 pm

Will the enemy list look something like this?

Doom 1 and 2:

Rifle Zombie - Imperial Officer/Storm Trooper
Shotgun Zombie - Storm Trooper/Imperial Commando
Chaingun Zombie - Hoth Trooper/Gran
Pinky - Gamorrean
Lost Soul - Remote/Interrogation Droid
Cacodemon - Probe Droid/Interrogation Droid
Hell Knight - Endoskeleton/Trandoshan
Baron of Hell - Dark Trooper
Revenant - Gran/Endoskeleton
Arachnotron - Kell Dragon
Pain Elemental - Mandolorian (Boba-Fett)
Mancubus - Kell Dragon/Trandoshan
Archvile - Dark Trooper
Nazi - Imperial Officer/Storm Trooper/Imperial Commando/Hoth Trooper/Gran
Cyberdemon - General Mohc
Mastermind - General Mohc

Heretic:

Gargoyle - Imperial Officer/Storm Trooper/Remote/Interrogation Droid
Fire Gargoyle - Imperial Officer/Storm Trooper/Imperial Commando/Hoth Trooper/Remote/Interrogation Droid
Golem - Gammorean
Ghost - Gran
Undead Warrior - Probe Droid
Sabreclaw - Endoskeleton
Ophidian - Trandoshan
Disciple - Mandolorian (Boba-Fett)
Weredragon - Kell Dragon
Iron Lich - Dark Trooper
Maulotaur - Dark Trooper
D'sparil - General Mohc

If ported to Hexen (would work very well with this MOD):

Ettin - Imperial Officer/Storm Trooper/Imperial Commando/Gran
Centaur - Imperial Commando/Gran
Afrit - Remote/Interrogation Droid/Probe Droid
Wendigo - Gamorrean
Stalker - Dianoga
Green Chaos Serpent - Kell Dragon
Brown Chaos Serpent - Kell Dragon/Endoskeleton
Slaughtar - Endoskeleton/Hoth Trooper
Dark Bishop - Trandoshan
Reiver - Remote/Interrogation Droid/Probe Droid
Maulotar - Dark Trooper
Death Wyvern - Dark Trooper x5
Zedek - Mandolorian (Boba-Fett)
Menelkir - Mandolorian (Boba-Fett)
Traductus - Mandolorian (Boba-Fett)
Herisiarch - Dark Trooper x 10
Korax - General Mohc

These lists above should balance the monsters out pretty well. Too bad there weren't more bosses in DF1 to fill the shoes of these other game bosses, I guess we will be taking out alot of Dark Troopers. lol

P.S. : I noticed that in the current version you have the Concussion Rifle acting as a BFG, I would suggest making it a hit-scan weapon to be more like the original thing.
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Re: [WIP] Dark Forces

Postby Ryan Cordell » Wed Apr 03, 2013 12:20 pm

From what I played, the Concussion Rifle is a somewhat fast-ish projectile that acts much like a BFG - it spawns those blasts in a cone. However, the cone is far less forgiving than Doom's, however, A_BFGSpray doesn't officer a custom cone size.

RC - Dark Forces v1!
Consider this version 1 for now, with the most notable enemies done and a good deal tweaked.

Spoiler: Changelog


I appreciate any help when it comes to ironing out the Phase 2 Dark Trooper AI and the Gran z-distance AI, however.
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Re: [WIP v1.00] Dark Forces

Postby CorSair » Wed Apr 03, 2013 3:45 pm

Oh jolly. Now, time to start making Dark Forces map pack... :lol:

And I really appreciate your work here. :)
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Re: [WIP v1.00] Dark Forces

Postby Valherran » Wed Apr 03, 2013 5:13 pm

This was a good release, here is a list of stuff I noticed again:

1. Picking up a Berserk Pack switches to Doomguy's fists instead of Kyle's.
2. Hoth Trooper is still OP, he deals 10 damage a bullet, which is more than enough to decimate you, I recommend 2 damage a bullet.
3. Shield Boosters can be picked up regardless of armor cap.
4. There needs to be a Shield Booster that gives 100 shields in place of Green Armor pickups.
5. Blue Armor pickups need to be replaced with Shield Supercharge pickups.
6. Trandoshan is insta-kill to players at 200 HP and Shields or less.
7. Endoskeleton and Dark Trooper walk too slow.
8. Dark Trooper does not fly around enough or fast enough
9. DF1 units that replaced vanilla doom monsters do not set off map triggers.

10. Pakered Mortar Gun is too weak to use, recommend 3x damage buff.
11. Stouker Concussion Rifle needs to be balanced, it is the most dominate weapon in the game, it 1 shots Dark Troopers and only costs 4 cells to fire. :lol:
12. Thermal Detonators are also too weak, recommend a 2x damage boost.
13. Recommend replacing Toxin Barrels with Ion Canisters
14. Recommend decreasing damage from Storm Troopers and Officers.
15. Berserk Pack should be replaced with Weapon Supercharge pickups.
16. Megaspheres should be replaced with Revives.
17. Probe Droids and Dark Troopers do not drop ammo
18. Jeron Fusion Cutter needs a buff, recommend 2x damage.
19. Assault Cannon alt-fire needs a damage and radius buff.
20. Stormtrooper Laser Rifle ROF is slightly slower than what it should be.
21. Imperial Repeater Gun ROF is slightly slower than what it should be.

On the subject of Concussion Rifle, I would recommend that you tone down it's damage vs Gamorreans, Dark Troopers, Endoskeletons, and Trandoshans. Also, I would increase the amount of cells used per shot, say maybe 40-50? It will keep people from ROFL-Stomping the entire game once it's picked up, and allow the use of other guns.

The Assault Cannon rocket alt-fire needs to be buffed as well, this rocket should be killing anything small instantly, and bigger targets in 1-3 shots on impact. Radius could use some increase too.
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Re: [WIP v1.00] Dark Forces

Postby TheDoomGuy » Wed Apr 03, 2013 6:19 pm

Where's the fists? :?
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