Doom: The Golden Souls ["Even More Definitive Edition" OUT!]

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Re: DooM : The Golden Souls [Definitive Edition Released!]

Postby Batandy » Wed Jun 01, 2016 11:16 am

The Snake wrote:Here ya go!

Image


It's on the FB page :)
https://www.facebook.com/goldensouls2/p ... =3&theater

If you want me to link something else instead of your zdoom forums profile, just tell me!
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Re: DooM : The Golden Souls [Definitive Edition Released!]

Postby The Snake » Wed Jun 01, 2016 1:12 pm

Batandy wrote:
The Snake wrote:Here ya go!

Image


It's on the FB page :)
https://www.facebook.com/goldensouls2/p ... =3&theater

If you want me to link something else instead of your zdoom forums profile, just tell me!


Oh, that would be great.

http://thesoulless.deviantart.com/

Thanks!
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Re: DooM : The Golden Souls [Definitive Edition Released!]

Postby NightsOwl » Tue Jun 07, 2016 6:24 pm

So, I just finished your mod after playing it for most of the day yesterday and today... here are my thoughts.

I went into it with high expectations, and for the most part, I think it's quite stellar. I downloaded the version from the Doom World thread.
Spoiler:

Which is still 1.2. I'd suggest updating that link, I've noticed you released a new patch that fixed the issue I spent an hour trying to figure out (Map 19, Rainbow Citadel not launching far enough) before I found this thread and saw a hotfix. So my impressions are from version 1.2.

I think (for the most part) every level had something it excelled in. Happy Gardens perfectly encapsulated what kind of experience you were in for. It definitely made me think of SM64 X Doom. From Happy Gardens next to Vanilla Hills next, I there noticed that there was 1 Soul per stage, and some stages would be "Red Coin Missions" from SM64 specifically. I was okay with this. However it's in Vanilla Hills I had an issue, and it seems to be an issue throughout the game. Before I explain the issue I should say that I tried to do every level with no "save scumming" So if I wanted to save my progress I went back through the paintings, and then back into the level. It felt more "official" that way, and not cheaty.

Now that that's out of the way, playing that way was... well... extremely aggravating when it came to certain parts. I'm mostly talking about parts with Canons shooting Missiles in a pattern. My main issue with the Canons in Vanilla Hills it that they seemed a bit challenging for literally the 2nd level of the game. And for the most part, it's fine. With enough tries and practice you get them down. However there's other canons in the game that just don't feel very well thought out. These ones I explain in the next paragraph I have issues with.

In particular I'm talking about these ones from Dejavu Challenge. Both the bits on the left and the part right after. There's barely any room for error at all, and if you were playing the game as I was, you'd probably think so too.
Spoiler:

Now, I'm not sure if this is how you meant the game to be played (With a lot of saves or with only saves the game does itself) but for the way I play, this challenge and the other one (Jumpmaze Challenge) both have a lot of 1-Hit kill shenanigans that just don't feel fair. Jumpmaze actually has 100% fair cannons and I think the "Challenge" of the canons is true and real. There's nothing unfair about them in this one. However, the issue with Jumpmaze Challenge is the Mines. It's not a challenge of skill to slowly tap your keys to get around mines that just kill you in one hit if you get EVER so close to them. Maybe it'd be easier if they were 3D, so you could see them in real space, but the fact that they're 2D combined with how close they can be together... it creates a frustrating experience over a supposed challenge. There's a difference between a challenge and just unfair difficulty.

The issue with the mines is also very prevalent in Dark Side of the Moon too. Especially in the cage part. One slight mistake meaning instant death is quite irritating if you aren't saving whenever you're in slight danger. This area is also very silly.
Spoiler:

I say it's silly because it's really dull. Having instant death "walls" of mines is not fun design. Combined with the plants, which you can just hide around the corner from, this room is a complete bore, and I'd suggest keeping things like this out of levels. Make it lava, or no floor instead. Instead, make it a room full of enemies, or something interesting. A puzzle. Anything but something like this. Areas where you had to slow WAAAAAY down to be super careful were really the biggest issue with the game, and these mines are the main cause of it.

One other small design I found bizarre and I had an issue with is this area in Jolly Jungle here:
Spoiler:

From my experience, I saw the "Warp Pad" which obviously meant (in my head) I could jump down and just walk onto it.. but nope! It just killed me! You have to jump right ON the pad. The issue with this is that the Warp Pad obviously tells you something's down there, so you'll be inclined to jump down and think there's no issue since obviously the developer would want people to get to the pad, but it leads to your death. Which is something I call "Misguiding The Player" which is a big no-no. The player should never have to second doubt something that looks 100% safe, and isn't instant death. I'd suggest letting players walk down there and maybe add a way back up and hide the switch. To avoid issue like this.

And another (rather small) issue, is that sometimes when you first enter a level, there's enemies from ALL over the map trying to kill you, and you can sit there and wait while you shoot them from across the map with the AK or the Gauss. It' kinda feels like it creates a slow start to any of the levels that have that happening in them. I feel like the first area you spawn, should at least be safe until you move a little. Lucy in the Sky with Coins (I think that's the name) has it a lot, but I think it actually works well in this level, due to everywhere being relatively the same height and you can easily see where things are coming from.
I'm pretty sure that's all the issues I've had with the design of the levels.

There's one other small "issue" I have. And it's with an enemy. And no, it's not the Plants, actually. It's the Gargoyle guys. They're freakin' crazy. They move super sporadically and fast, it's hard to run away or even hit them with anything other than the Shotguns. They're cool enemies, but I feel like they need touched up a little. Maybe slowed down a little and not to move so randomly. They almost look like they're jerking around.

Here are some suggestions for this game/Golden Souls 2 you may (or may not) want to consider.

    1.) When there's noteblocks, sometimes it's not clear if they're going to launch you straight up, or if you're going to need to hold a direction to launch far enough to the area you need. I'd suggest giving an arrow on top of the launching ones showing you which way you should hold as you bounce, or a trail of coins showing you where it'll launch you. In Super Mario Bros/World hacks, people usually use coins to show you where a jump or drop is going to lead you, and It works. I don't see why it wouldn't in Doom, so give it a shot.

    2.) Maybe flesh out the shop a bit more. The only thing you can upgrade is your ammo capacity, that's cool and all, but maybe a weapon you can only purchase would be cool too.

    3.) Possibly add in a weapon that relates to Mario a bit. I loved *all* the weapons of Golden Souls, but there was a distinct lack of a "Mario" themed weapon. The Rainbow Gauss Cannon (don't remember the exact name) was cool, but ultimately it's nothing new.

    4.) If possible, expand the levels more. Add more Golden Souls for each level. Maybe 2 or 3, per painting. (Again, this may be impossible, but it'd help make it feel more Mario Esque)

    5.) More options on the Hub World. The only real time you got to choose which levels you wanted to do first, were the 4 at the top floor and the 2 in the post-game area. Give more level choices from the start!

    6.) I've seen a lot of people complain about the plant enemies, and I personally feel like they aren't that bad at all, I noticed you lowered their HP in the latest patch (Keep in mind I played on 1.2) and I think that'll probably fix any issues. Maybe reconsider them being stationary? Possibly moving? Make them something that doesn't just keep you away for a little bit until you kill them.

    7.) Please add a midpoint object to Golden Souls 1 and/or 2. It'd be cool to have midpoints dictate you're making progress through the level, and it'd give a reason not to save scum. I'd imagine it'd be simple to program. Make something you run through/interact with, and have it make an autosave for you. Easy peasy. Though this is only really useful for people who played the mod like I did, (Only using the auto-saves) but I think it'd be neat for people like us, who want a fair challenge but don't want to start ALL the levels ALL the way over again if we die.


Anyway, after a big chunk of negatives, I want to say that I enjoyed it a lot. There were some issues I had, and they should be avoided in the sequel, but overall, I think this is one of the best Mods for Doom I've played. As a huge Super Mario and DooM fan, I love what you did, and I love how much obvious work went into it. I genuinely can't wait for Golden Souls 2 to come out. I can only imagine it to be bigger, faster, and stronger too.

The levels felt varied always too. And I just want to say that Jolly Jungle was my favorite level, and I loved the Banana easter egg. Pleaaaaaase have another level in that style in 2!

If anything was sound advice in your opinion, I'd love to know. I'd like to think I know decent game design, so I genuinely just wanna help improve your future projects. You have a lot of talent, and I can't wait.

Overall, I'd give Golden Souls 1 a solid 8.5/10. It's a great experience, and for the most part, delivers superb, fast, and fun gameplay... with a few setbacks.

I'll be playing the Demo for 2, and filling out your Survey for improvement soon, also.
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Re: DooM : The Golden Souls [Definitive Edition Released!]

Postby chronoteeth » Tue Jun 07, 2016 10:24 pm

eyyy gratz on bein on vinesauce!
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Re: DooM : The Golden Souls [Definitive Edition Released!]

Postby Batandy » Wed Jun 08, 2016 12:49 am

NightsOwl wrote:So, I just finished your mod after playing it for most of the day yesterday and today... here are my thoughts.


Hey, glad you enjoyed the mod, updating the doomworld page right now, also about every other issue, you are totally right, you'll find out after playing the GS2 demo that most of these issues aren't in the sequel, and i've toned down all the environment hazard elements(except for death pits, but you've got better air control and checkpoints now)
I'm pretty confident that GS2 will be a 100% pleasant experience for everyone, the sequel was born because i wanted to totally outdo the first one under every aspect, since golden souls was a learning ground for me and i've improved alot after working on it for 2 years.

chronoteeth wrote:eyyy gratz on bein on vinesauce!


Hey, thanks, it was quite a surprise :)
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Re: DooM : The Golden Souls [Definitive Edition Released!]

Postby DevilBlackDeath » Wed Jun 08, 2016 9:25 am

Speaking of which Batandy, I've run through the demo a bit (still got to finish it though), and I wondered, do you plan on adding, as he mentioned, checkpoints? I hate using the save feature because I always wonder "was that where the level designer plan us to save? Did he plan the level for a no-save runthrough or is it impossible that way?" (mind you, some levels are near-impossible without saving in Hell on Earth BD Map pack... -_- well BD's BD). I like having a fixed challenge. The "make-your-own-difficulty" save system is fine, but I like to have a fixed challenge that is implicitly told by the level designer ;)

I actually went through Golden Souls DE 1.1 without saving midlevels, only used level start saves :P Even when I came back to get all the secrets
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Re: DooM : The Golden Souls [Definitive Edition Released!]

Postby Batandy » Wed Jun 08, 2016 9:51 am

DevilBlackDeath wrote:Speaking of which Batandy, I've run through the demo a bit (still got to finish it though), and I wondered, do you plan on adding, as he mentioned, checkpoints? I hate using the save feature because I always wonder "was that where the level designer plan us to save? Did he plan the level for a no-save runthrough or is it impossible that way?" (mind you, some levels are near-impossible without saving in Hell on Earth BD Map pack... -_- well BD's BD). I like having a fixed challenge. The "make-your-own-difficulty" save system is fine, but I like to have a fixed challenge that is implicitly told by the level designer ;)

I actually went through Golden Souls DE 1.1 without saving midlevels, only used level start saves :P Even when I came back to get all the secrets


Checkpoints are a recent addition, so, yes they are in
Image
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Re: DooM : The Golden Souls [Definitive Edition Released!]

Postby DevilBlackDeath » Wed Jun 08, 2016 10:15 am

Batandy wrote:
DevilBlackDeath wrote:Speaking of which Batandy, I've run through the demo a bit (still got to finish it though), and I wondered, do you plan on adding, as he mentioned, checkpoints? I hate using the save feature because I always wonder "was that where the level designer plan us to save? Did he plan the level for a no-save runthrough or is it impossible that way?" (mind you, some levels are near-impossible without saving in Hell on Earth BD Map pack... -_- well BD's BD). I like having a fixed challenge. The "make-your-own-difficulty" save system is fine, but I like to have a fixed challenge that is implicitly told by the level designer ;)

I actually went through Golden Souls DE 1.1 without saving midlevels, only used level start saves :P Even when I came back to get all the secrets


Checkpoints are a recent addition, so, yes they are in
Image


YEAAAAAAH ! Thanks a lot ^^ That's a really nice touch ;)
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Re: DooM : The Golden Souls [Definitive Edition Released!]

Postby affemaria » Fri Jun 10, 2016 4:30 pm

The Snake wrote:Here ya go!

Image


Awesome! Maybe the title, "DOOM - The Golden Souls", could be on the first layer.
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Re: DooM : The Golden Souls [Definitive Edition Released!]

Postby Jimmy » Tue Jun 28, 2016 9:38 am

Hey, so uh, didn't I say I'd play this on stream? Like, a year ago? very nearly two years ago, jesus christ Jimmy

Well I kinda just did! :o

Part 1
Part 2
Part 3
Part 4 (just done today)

Hope my few criticisms go over well. This is overall a great deal of fun! Such a happy-go-lucky mod with genuine challenge.

Apologies if the stream quality is a bit chunky and the dropped frames make it a bit unwatchable in places, I have bad internet, and I think other people in my house were using the connection early on. Part 3 seemed to get no dropped frames, though, which means it should be smooth.

EDIT: Oh PLEASE make the above picture the TITLEPIC!! :D
Last edited by Jimmy on Wed Jun 29, 2016 2:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: DooM : The Golden Souls [Definitive Edition Released!]

Postby Batandy » Wed Jun 29, 2016 2:23 am

Heh, thanks for telling me, i'll watch the stream later :)
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Re: DooM : The Golden Souls [Definitive Edition Released!]

Postby Jimmy » Thu Jun 30, 2016 1:19 am

I streamed a fourth part yesterday - was a little tired but overall it went well. Lucy in the Sky with Coins gave me massive trouble finding that last red coin, though. Lovely looking map otherwise.

At the end of the stream I hit a point where I didn't seem able to continue in the Mansion. It looked at the time as though the set was incomplete, because I beat every level I could find in the map (up to MAP13, Lucy in the Sky With Coins), but didn't have enough Golden Souls to climb the enchanted staircase (speaking of which, that appeared to have an unknown music file error: Music lump "MSTAIR" not found). I've beaten all 13 maps I can currently access, but I'm still 2 souls short of climbing the stairs.

Looking at the maplist, there are another 7 or so maps I have yet to even see. Are these all accessible from the hub map currently? I'm seeing a lot of thin grey doors in the Mansion which haven't opened yet.
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Re: DooM : The Golden Souls [Definitive Edition Released!]

Postby Batandy » Thu Jun 30, 2016 4:23 am

Jimmy wrote:I streamed a fourth part yesterday - was a little tired but overall it went well. Lucy in the Sky with Coins gave me massive trouble finding that last red coin, though. Lovely looking map otherwise.

At the end of the stream I hit a point where I didn't seem able to continue in the Mansion. It looked at the time as though the set was incomplete, because I beat every level I could find in the map (up to MAP13, Lucy in the Sky With Coins), but didn't have enough Golden Souls to climb the enchanted staircase (speaking of which, that appeared to have an unknown music file error: Music lump "MSTAIR" not found). I've beaten all 13 maps I can currently access, but I'm still 2 souls short of climbing the stairs.

Looking at the maplist, there are another 7 or so maps I have yet to even see. Are these all accessible from the hub map currently? I'm seeing a lot of thin grey doors in the Mansion which haven't opened yet.


There are 3 secret levels in the mod, find them and you'll have every soul required for the stairs, usually a grey door indicates that a painting nearby has a secret level

Also yeah i'm aware that some music files don't play properly, i'll probably release an hotfix later on
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Re: DooM : The Golden Souls [Definitive Edition Released!]

Postby Jimmy » Sun Jul 03, 2016 7:11 am

Ah, thanks for clearing that up. I checked out the maps I'd already beaten and found the big coins necessary to open the next door.

Streaming the rest of it here RIGHT NOW! Hopefully should get to the end. :D

https://www.twitch.tv/jimmybtsx
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Re: DooM : The Golden Souls [Definitive Edition Released!]

Postby Melodica » Mon Jul 04, 2016 9:40 pm

Sooo, after finally completing this mod, here's what I have to say, first of all, this was great! A pretty fun experience altough I did have some trouble in some maps (Lucy in the sky with diamonds, that last red coin that was hidden behind some vines was a pain in the ass), I have to say it was fun. Some complains I have is the fact that the auto shotgun is way too risky to use, since it takes about a decade to reload and a microsecond to use all its ammo before reloading and that the spikegun was close to useless most of the time.

I dont know if these are technical issues or something is going on with my gzdoom, but here goes:
1) The boss music for the castlevania-esque level was missing
2) The same for the final boss music, it was missing
3) There was no music in the credits sequence

I also love that D_RUNNIN midi.
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