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Re: [WIP] Supplice

PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 11:28 am
by Vostyok
skdursh wrote:This looks amazing and also like it's going to melt some computers. I can already smell the tidal wave of "wtf this sucks I only get 10fps" coming to shore.


Apart from the Bloom in the screenshots (which is optional player side), it doesn't look like there is anything ridiculous going on at all. No 3d models, very modest use of portals, no or limited 3d floors or slopes...

It will remain to be seen, but I think most of this is just solid texture and sprite work. It shouldn't be that much more processor intensive than running regular Doom maps, in my opinion.

Re: [WIP] Supplice

PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 2:32 pm
by Amuscaria
New shots look fantastic! :D

Re: [WIP] Supplice

PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 2:36 pm
by Redneckerz
Supplice is one of the Doom Engine greats ive been looking forward to for several years. It looks just so incredibly polished.

It literally looks like a Doom engine counter part to Ion Fury. It just looks *that* good.

Amazing.

Re: [WIP] Supplice

PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2020 2:56 am
by Graf Zahl
Vostyok wrote:Apart from the Bloom in the screenshots (which is optional player side), it doesn't look like there is anything ridiculous going on at all. No 3d models, very modest use of portals, no or limited 3d floors or slopes...


But lots of detail, which is far more demanding. Neither 3D floors nor slopes are particularly performance hungry. Portals can be an issue on older hardware, though.
The lesson here: Just because it says "Doom" does not necessarily mean it doesn't need good hardware to run smoothly.

Re: [WIP] Supplice

PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2020 11:55 am
by Vostyok
Can I get a definition for "detail". I haven't found much information on this. Is it sector count, linedefs, more obstacles for the ai to think about, visible sprites at once? I am curious as to what the main culprits are

Re: [WIP] Supplice

PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 7:01 pm
by zrrion the insect
Graf Zahl wrote:Just because it says "Doom" does not necessarily mean it doesn't need good hardware to run smoothly.
I know you gotta hear the same thing over and over about performance issues, but you saying this over and over in response has a certain symmetry to it that I really appreciate.

Re: [WIP] Supplice

PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2020 7:23 am
by Graf Zahl
Vostyok wrote:Can I get a definition for "detail". I haven't found much information on this. Is it sector count, linedefs, more obstacles for the ai to think about, visible sprites at once? I am curious as to what the main culprits are



Sprites are most costly, followed by walls. Sector count is irrelevant, but lots od subsectors can also add up.

Re: [WIP] Supplice

PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2020 8:18 pm
by TheOldKingCole
Think we could get an Demo sometime soon?

Re: [WIP] Supplice

PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2020 9:55 pm
by Captain J
Wait and see, i suppose!

Re: [WIP] Supplice

PostPosted: Tue Feb 25, 2020 2:32 pm
by Mechadon
A demo is a possibility, but we're not quite there yet ;)

Re: [WIP] Supplice

PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2020 10:05 am
by ActionAlligator
Not sure how I missed this but I'm glad I now know about it! =D I'm just sad it still isn't released yet, it looks incredible!

The only tiny little worry I have is that 10 weapons + 2 firing modes per weapon sounds kind of unwieldy and also opens the possibility of weapons "stepping on each other's toes" so to speak, i.e. more than one weapon have the same general/situational uses. Obviously, for some people, variety trumps this issue, but just my tiny worry you're free to quell. This still looks incredibly fun and gorgeous, I hope that point isn't lost among my petty nitpicking! =)

Re: [WIP] Supplice

PostPosted: Fri Apr 10, 2020 8:59 pm
by Mechadon
Thanks for the kind words ActionAlligator!

About the weapons, behavioral overlap was something I kept in my mind when drafting out the concepts. We tried to be very careful with the weapon behaviors so that overlap would be minimized. One good thing is that even though these weapons are new, we're still using Doom's general weapon behaviors as a foundation. So you'll get the same sort of progression and power tiering with the Supplice weapons, except that our weapons are going to be more powerful and bombastic than the vanilla Doom weapons. Pillowblaster has been extremely helpful in this regard by the way.

Most of the weapons are done at this point, and I've been doing a good bit of play testing with them. And so far, I think everything feels unique enough that one weapon doesn't completely overshadow another one. Also the plan right now is to introduce each weapon in steps at you progress through each episode (I guess that should be a given). Some of the later weapons get a bit of personality from the setting they get introduced in (ie. the Plasma Blaster will show up in the high-tech bases on Triton, the Slugger will show up in the industrial factories on Daphnis, etc).

Apart from outright showing people how the weapons behave during normal gameplay, its probably hard to tell if they'll be unique and fun to play with. Although I'm hoping to record some gameplay clips soon (Bouncy has been doing some really awesome sfx work lately), so maybe something like that will help.

Re: [WIP] Supplice

PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2020 10:04 pm
by ActionAlligator
Hey, thanks a ton for the update! I'm relieved you're worried about the same thing and I appreciate the explanation. That's really one of the few drawbacks of Doom is how as soon as you get the chaingun, you basically never use the pistol again (except for switches probably) which totally wastes the weapon slot, the sprites, and the coding; such a shame for Doom, but I'm glad you recognize that as well. You've pretty effectively quelled my worries and now I'm even more excited to play your mod. =)

Your answer has me curious about something, though, if you wouldn't mind indulging me further; in your own playthroughs and others' who help you test it, how often would you say weapon-switching occurs? Does your mod intend for player precision in what weapon they use in a given situation, or do you design it more openly with preference in mind (i.e., this player prefers weapon 3 & 4 and almost never uses 2, but that's ok because there's enough ammo to go either way, etc.). I'm sure it's a little of both, but maybe you lean more towards one than the other? Thanks again!

Re: [WIP] Supplice

PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2020 5:32 pm
by Mechadon
I'm glad I could adequately address your concerns! I definitely agree with you on the Pistol/Chaingun dynamic in vanilla Doom; I've never been a huge fan of it. I always appreciate mods that make the Pistol into something more useful.

There probably hasn't been enough testing by other people yet to give a solid answer to your second question (we're still in the balancing phase at this point). But from what we've tried to do with the weapons so far, I would say there's lots of room for player preference. Though it really depends on what weapon I give the player in a given situation (there's still a lot of mapping left to do). With my mapping style, sometimes I like to put focus on specific weapons, at least for certain chunks of a given map. So in that situation, a player will be more persuaded to use, let's say, the Rocket Revolver if that's what I'm supplying them with in a given section.

But if you want to look at all of the weapons, then I would say there is plenty of wiggle room for player preference. Just in my own testing, I like to swap around from weapon to weapon quite a bit. Though that could be just because I love how all the weapons sound and feel (Cage, Pillowblaster, and Bouncy have honestly hit it out of the park with the weapon feel). I think each weapon within each ammo type is probably different enough that a player could opt to use one or the other given their own preferences. Just off the top of my head, this is how I think things will break down:

Spoiler:


That was probably more than you were asking for, but maybe that helps to illustrate how the weapons will work :)

Re: [WIP] Supplice

PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2020 12:40 am
by Captain J
Very nice and detailed. Can't wait to spend them all ammo in the game!