Carnage Galore 3, now for GZDoom - beta (update)

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Re: Carnage Galore 3, now for GZDoom - beta released

Postby Ichor » Tue Aug 30, 2011 5:31 pm

Well, the slopes and all of that will come later. Right now, I'm concentrating on fixing any bugs. Speaking of which, I'm going to release a minor update soon.

As for the "oomph" department, the glyphs that were in Hexen 2 are in there, but you won't see those until at least the second hub.
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Re: Carnage Galore 3, now for GZDoom - beta released

Postby Tormentor667 » Thu Sep 01, 2011 4:28 am

Some screenshots - please :)
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Re: Carnage Galore 3, now for GZDoom - beta released

Postby wildweasel » Thu Sep 01, 2011 10:56 am

Tormentor667 wrote:Some screenshots - please :)

uhh there's a video on the first page, that's worth at least a few thousand screenshots, isn't it
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Re: Carnage Galore 3, now for GZDoom - beta released

Postby Ichor » Thu Sep 01, 2011 11:04 am

wildweasel wrote:
Tormentor667 wrote:Some screenshots - please :)

uhh there's a video on the first page, that's worth at least a few thousand screenshots, isn't it

I think he's asking for screenshots of the glyph I mentioned in the last post. I'll be able to put some up a bit later.
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Re: Carnage Galore 3, now for GZDoom - beta (update)

Postby Ichor » Thu Sep 01, 2011 4:34 pm

Ok, here we are:

Spoiler:

But wait! There's more!

Update

  • Increased the firepower of the powered up Mindblower (and mana usage)
  • The Hammer alt-fire now fires at the same rate as the primary. Previously, it was a bit faster.
  • Made maps 6 and 13 a little brighter
  • Added the glowing lava GL effect
  • Fixed the maulotaur sounds and added obituaries
  • Fixed a secret in map 8 so it can be accessed later on if you missed the chance earlier
  • Adjusted the maulotaur's attacks so they aren't as cheap.
  • Increased flechette damage a little, and reduced its gravity so it will travel farther when thrown.
  • Fixed a problem with incorrect enemy count on some maps
  • Made some minor changes to a few maps
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Re: Carnage Galore 3, now for GZDoom - beta released

Postby The Ultimate DooMer » Thu Sep 01, 2011 4:53 pm

Cleric run completed, here's some thoughts:

Weapons: Nice to have that many options, even if some are situational and others lose their appeal. Wraithverge primary fire seems a bit OP given how much mana it costs and D'Sparil's staff is a bit OP with the altfire, especially when tomed (can pretty much go and make coffee while they kill the green chaos serpents at the end). I'd either tone the skull wizards down, make it cost more mana or (preferably) limit the number that can be summoned at once (like with my summon spell).

Enemies: Pretty good variance with some nice new ones (the lava stalker is a neat idea, as is recolouring the centaur leader) even if the new ones (gargoyles aside) seem to be palette swaps of each other. (that's just a personal thing though, you know how much I like to add new sprite sets altogether ;)). I do like them dropping random items though, gives incentive to kill them.

Items: The new items are good, and I like the fact the charm spell works every time now as well. I love the new torch, and the fact that there are dark places that actually need them. Some are a bit too powerful though - the hold spell and timestop both last too long IMO (and the latter works on bosses which makes it easy to cheese them). I would also recommend using my code from Serpent (or some variant of) to make torches last between maps in the same hub.

I feel that most of the items are too common also...at the end of the 2nd hub I had well over 10 of everything except torches and the really rare stuff, and never spent a single gold/silver coin except for the puzzle piece in the 1st map. I would certainly suggest making some items rarer, especially tomes.

Shopping could use a revamp too (buying 5 health potions or large blues etc. is slooooow), although you've probably got this planned anyway given how the shop looks in the 3rd hub. A disc of repulsion isn't worth a silver IMO, probably a bronze instead (or remove it from the shelf altogether, as they're common anyway).

Maps: I did notice a few bugs (mainly light levels on top of bookcases in map 05) but aside from that, really nice looking and playing all the way through. I like the fact that you've gone with messages all over the maps (placeholder ofc atm), that adds a lot to atmosphere IMO. Mobs hanging around outside map 01's exit should probably be taken out IMO, and I would also make a separate decorate class for gargoyle statues etc. that don't animate. (as they confuse the mob count in each map and make me think there's still a load out there even when it's cleared)

Overall I really enjoyed this, it's great just to play it w/o fear of losing my save game at any point...don't get me wrong it was innovative back then, but now the limits of Doomsday are gone I think this project will end up so much better. (and it's another example to disprove the "limitations breed innovation" theory that DW folk still cling to)

Edit:
Made maps 6 and 13 a little brighter


Nooooooooooo....torches won't be used much then :(

(it really does work when you have to use a torch in a dark cave like that , given that it only lights up the area around you)
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Re: Carnage Galore 3, now for GZDoom - beta released

Postby Ichor » Thu Sep 01, 2011 5:08 pm

The Ultimate DooMer wrote:Nooooooooooo....torches won't be used much then :(

(it really does work when you have to use a torch in a dark cave like that , given that it only lights up the area around you)

I said 'a little'. You'll still need the torch in map 6, and I changed 13's to make it more consistent with map 14.

And by completed, you mean both hubs or just the first one?
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Re: Carnage Galore 3, now for GZDoom - beta released

Postby The Ultimate DooMer » Thu Sep 01, 2011 5:11 pm

Both, and the 2 maps in the 3rd hub.
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Re: Carnage Galore 3, now for GZDoom - beta released

Postby Ichor » Thu Sep 01, 2011 5:41 pm

Weapons: Nice to have that many options, even if some are situational and others lose their appeal. Wraithverge primary fire seems a bit OP given how much mana it costs and D'Sparil's staff is a bit OP with the altfire, especially when tomed (can pretty much go and make coffee while they kill the green chaos serpents at the end). I'd either tone the skull wizards down, make it cost more mana or (preferably) limit the number that can be summoned at once (like with my summon spell).

The 4th weapons are meant to be a little OP. The gold mana they use will be more rare than the other two types, and the combined mana a real prize, since it gives all three types. The summoned wizard are supposed to have a time limit, but it doesn't quite work all the time. I've also tried to make a summon limit, but that didn't go well. Now that you mentioned your summon spell, I might try looking at that for some ideas.

Enemies: Pretty good variance with some nice new ones (the lava stalker is a neat idea, as is recolouring the centaur leader) even if the new ones (gargoyles aside) seem to be palette swaps of each other. (that's just a personal thing though, you know how much I like to add new sprite sets altogether ;)). I do like them dropping random items though, gives incentive to kill them.

Well, I really don't prefer a true palette monsters (i.e. baron/hell knight). There are some differences between the monsters. Some, not very much, while others are quite different. There's also some new sprites as well. Most of them I haven't added yet, or won't show up until later on though. For instance, the unused gold egg sprite now has a use: morph shield. And you will likely need it starting around the third hub.

Items: The new items are good, and I like the fact the charm spell works every time now as well. I love the new torch, and the fact that there are dark places that actually need them. Some are a bit too powerful though - the hold spell and timestop both last too long IMO (and the latter works on bosses which makes it easy to cheese them). I would also recommend using my code from Serpent (or some variant of) to make torches last between maps in the same hub.

The hold spell seems just right, and it doesn't affect bosses (skull wizards aren't considered boss monsters). The time stop might be a bit long though. I might either shorten the duration a bit or remove a couple of them.

I feel that most of the items are too common also...at the end of the 2nd hub I had well over 10 of everything except torches and the really rare stuff, and never spent a single gold/silver coin except for the puzzle piece in the 1st map. I would certainly suggest making some items rarer, especially tomes.

Yeah, I've been trying to cut down on the number of things lying around. There was a lot more earlier. I don't want to have too many things, but I don't want to have too few either.

Shopping could use a revamp too (buying 5 health potions or large blues etc. is slooooow), although you've probably got this planned anyway given how the shop looks in the 3rd hub. A disc of repulsion isn't worth a silver IMO, probably a bronze instead (or remove it from the shelf altogether, as they're common anyway).

Yeah, they are a bit slow. I'll speed them up some. As for the discs of repulsion, I've been thinking about what to do with those. It's not so much that they're common. It's that they aren't really that powerful. I guess I could remove them from the early stores. There's plenty of other items there to randomly choose from.

Maps: I did notice a few bugs (mainly light levels on top of bookcases in map 05) but aside from that, really nice looking and playing all the way through. I like the fact that you've gone with messages all over the maps (placeholder ofc atm), that adds a lot to atmosphere IMO. Mobs hanging around outside map 01's exit should probably be taken out IMO, and I would also make a separate decorate class for gargoyle statues etc. that don't animate. (as they confuse the mob count in each map and make me think there's still a load out there even when it's cleared)

I'm guessing you mean the bright light on the ceiling from the message book locations. That can be easily fixed. As for those pests at the end of map 1, they have always bothered me, especially as a fighter in JHexen. There wasn't any way to reach them unless they were close. I suppose I could remove the monster blocking from that line or bring them inside. Oh, and stoned gargoyles are a separate class (uses -COUNTKILL). The problem was with the buried reivers. Somehow, there was some old code left in which caused the incorrect enemy count. That's been fixed.

Overall I really enjoyed this, it's great just to play it w/o fear of losing my save game at any point...don't get me wrong it was innovative back then, but now the limits of Doomsday are gone I think this project will end up so much better. (and it's another example to disprove the "limitations breed innovation" theory that DW folk still cling to)

In my case, the theory goes something like, "If I can do this in vanilla Doom, just imagine how much easier it will be and how much better it will look in GZDoom." I've made some maps with limitations like that (i.e. 1monster). I prefer to think of it as a challenge. I especially like how maps 15 and 19 turned out.
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Re: Carnage Galore 3, now for GZDoom - beta released

Postby KILLER2 » Tue Sep 06, 2011 5:41 am

Help!I can't seem to find where to place the book (in the second library,the big one)...
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Re: Carnage Galore 3, now for GZDoom - beta released

Postby Ichor » Tue Sep 06, 2011 7:47 am

KILLER2 wrote:Help!I can't seem to find where to place the book (in the second library,the big one)...

The dark one in map 4? It's random, but you should see a couple of torches lit up on the sides of the bookshelf where it goes.
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Re: Carnage Galore 3, now for GZDoom - beta released

Postby ShadesMaster » Tue Sep 06, 2011 1:01 pm

Carnage Galore is an excellent resource MOD as well for making levels, I got it to work in DoomBuilder 2 by eliminating a duplicate .png in the mage files. Modified Shadow Wood for a sort of HeXen: Beyond Zdoom, but just playing around as I'm primarily working on Hpack and Evil Unleashed. But for extra levels for a HeXen mod, the Carnage Galore resources are a winner.
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Re: Carnage Galore 3, now for GZDoom - beta released

Postby Ichor » Tue Sep 06, 2011 1:39 pm

heh, it took me a while to find that duplicate (lots of files to sift through), but I did eventually, and I removed it.
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Re: Carnage Galore 3, now for GZDoom - beta released

Postby neoworm » Thu Sep 08, 2011 3:57 pm

I finished second hub and played the third one for a while. Later during the second hub I started to abuse the charm spell and got stucked twice because of it. The most reasonable way to use charm is to charm the strongest beast in the room, which is usually the monster of choice for triggering the script that opens door to next area. It took me 10 minutes to figure out that charming the very first magma serpent is not enough to make the door to crypt with DSparil open and I have to kill him. For the second time it was one of the clerics in third hub (he actually wandered away to kill some stray gargoyle so I had to seach for him).

Also DSparil fight was a lot easier with 3 magma serpents on my side. Maybe you could force player to kill everything in the room before ressurecting DSparill. That way it was kinda pathetic, everything I had to do was to clean up the mess that was left (Badly hurt Bloodlich and few disciples. And the charmed serpents).

And I found a bug. Dont know if it wasnt repaired already but the two wendigos in secret in last map od second hub didnt activated. Here is the screen:
Spoiler:
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Re: Carnage Galore 3, now for GZDoom - beta released

Postby Ichor » Thu Sep 08, 2011 4:26 pm

Yeah, that wendigo bug was already fixed. And as for the charm spell problem, I've been thinking about how to fix that.

And D'Sparil can be easy if done like that. I might have some ideas for that too.
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