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Re: Heretic Amplified [Released!]

PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 1:44 pm
by Caleb13
Huh? There should be some kind of alternative HUD in this mod? Because I can't see any, too.

Re: Heretic Amplified [Released!]

PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 4:20 pm
by Evil Space Tomato
Caleb13 wrote:The readme file says that the mod should work with Zdoom, but I get this error when I try to use Zdoom 2.5.0:

Script error, "HereticAmpFinalBeta.pk3:episodedata.wad:TEXTURES" line 3: Unknown texture property 'Graphic'

I forgot to fix that oops :(

I uploaded a new version that should work with ZDoom

Caleb13 wrote:By the way, is there some way to switch spells in the "book weapon"?


No that was done for balance because some of the books effects are very powerful, a full book could be equal to 50 rings of invulnerability if you could select any page.
If you activate a tome however the book will randomly change while you hold it, and it will create new page ammo.

I find it tends to be a situational weapon you see what page the book is at then wait until that power is useful.

The Ultimate DooMer wrote:No status bar and inventory display (aside from the bulky default one).

I did nothing to the HUD except added the red key to it, what alternate HUD are you thinking of?

Re: Heretic Amplified [Released!]

PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 4:34 pm
by Gez
Here. The HPack HUD was based on your Freame2 HUD, but we fixed the full screen problem. So feel free to use it:
Spoiler:

Re: Heretic Amplified [Released!]

PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2011 1:55 pm
by Caleb13
Evil Space Tomato wrote:
No that was done for balance because some of the books effects are very powerful, a full book could be equal to 50 rings of invulnerability if you could select any page. If you activate a tome however the book will randomly change while you hold it, and it will create new page ammo. I find it tends to be a situational weapon you see what page the book is at then wait until that power is useful.


Please consider adding this info to the Readme file. I spent quite some time trying to figure out how to switch the spells. And I guess I'm not alone, even though Heretic is nowhere as popular as Doom in these forums.

Re: Heretic Amplified [Released!]

PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2011 5:02 pm
by The Ultimate DooMer
Evil Space Tomato wrote:I did nothing to the HUD except added the red key to it, what alternate HUD are you thinking of?


The HUD that appears one screen size higher than the status bar (and one lower than fullscreen with no display at all). I solved it by ripping out the SBARINFO lump, currently on the forest map.

Re: Heretic Amplified [Released!]

PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 2:12 pm
by The Ultimate DooMer
Just finished playing through this:

Health: Not sure why it goes up to 200, as most of the time it's impossible to die (especially with the huge amounts of health items lying around)...only when some of the harder hitting enemies appear does it approach anywhere near danger level. If it's for the blood sphere, it appears kinda late in the game (or people might not notice it because it's in slot 7)...maybe it needs to be around from the start?

Weapons:
The crossbow isn't bad, as it requires accuracy and later on in the game it comes into it's own, as the best long-range sniper weapon.
The lightning rod seems ok damage-wise, but does seem to trigger monster pain states a lot (making it possible to cheese most enemies). The regen idea is cool, too but there's a lot of ammo around to make it less valuable.
The bone shredder can kill even maulotaurs with only a few hits, plus ammo is way too readily available for it (at very least I'd make it use more ammo and pass through ghosts).
The book is a neat idea but again, ammo is too easy to get for it (plus the invuln mode doesn't use any ammo at all).
The moon rod is awkward but ok when you get used to it, although it does have the habit of making you face in odd directions sometimes when firing.
The blood orb is a neat idea too and could almost justify the huge amounts of health lying around if it appeared early in the game (and also took health using TakeInventory ("Health", x) rather than just damaging you and your armour).
The black artifact is like an IWIN button, even against the hardest mobs. I would've made ammo very hard to get for this, or toned it down so it can only one-shot smaller mobs. (or conversely give bosses a DamageFactor for it to ensure it can't kill them in a few hits)
In general, some weapons are too OP and there's way too much ammo around, this contributes to the ammo problems relating to individual weapons above.

Enemies: These I liked, plenty of them to go round and keep things varied throughout. There's very little to tell between the normal undead knights and the pestilence version though, maybe a better recolour or a size increase?

Maps: Some cool ideas floating around, the large-scale battles were fun, and nice slope and texture usage but a bit bare at times. E7M4 seemed a little awkward though (plus the mauler-fighting-shadow encounter seemed to be bugged, it wouldn't end). E7M5 has a bad texture bug on the first ruin you come to after walking up the steep dark steps into the ruined outdoor bit. E7M7 has a couple of archways with main textures on them in the NE corner's green corridor area (where the chaos serpent on the lift is, speaking of which that lift has no way to lower you back down if you get stuck up there).

Re: Heretic Amplified [Released!]

PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2011 11:36 pm
by Vertigo
This mod is awesome, it's great to see Heretic getting more quality releases. The weapons are quite satisfying to use (especially the crossbow) but I find them to be quite strong. I think they would fit in well in a HR-styled wad. This will definitely breathe new life into old Heretic wads.

Re: Heretic Amplified [Released!]

PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2011 3:07 pm
by Evil Space Tomato
Yes you are right about it being on the easy side.
I intended it to be slightly harder than episode 5, I also made all of the levels do-able from a pistol start.

The Ultimate DooMer wrote:The lightning rod seems ok damage-wise, but does seem to trigger monster pain states a lot (making it possible to cheese most enemies). The regen idea is cool, too but there's a lot of ammo around to make it less valuable.

That is intentional, I even added a radius thrust to stun weaker monsters more.
It also has the lowest amount of damage per second, excluding the non damaging book modes.

The Ultimate DooMer wrote:The bone shredder can kill even maulotaurs with only a few hits, plus ammo is way too readily available for it (at very least I'd make it use more ammo and pass through ghosts).

You are right here.
I wanted to boneshredder to run out of ammo quickly, but also gain ammo quickly, but i just added too much ammo for running out to happen often enough.
I think I will give the bones a 66% change to pass through ghosts though seems fair.

The Ultimate DooMer wrote:The book is a neat idea but again, ammo is too easy to get for it (plus the invuln mode doesn't use any ammo at all).

Oops :shock:

The Ultimate DooMer wrote:The moon rod is awkward but ok when you get used to it, although it does have the habit of making you face in odd directions sometimes when firing.

It should never turn you more than 15 degrees, any more is a bug.

The Ultimate DooMer wrote:The blood orb is a neat idea too and could almost justify the huge amounts of health lying around if it appeared early in the game (and also took health using TakeInventory ("Health", x) rather than just damaging you and your armour).

Good idea I added this weapon right at the start and never changed it.

The Ultimate DooMer wrote:The black artifact is like an IWIN button, even against the hardest mobs. I would've made ammo very hard to get for this, or toned it down so it can only one-shot smaller mobs. (or conversely give bosses a DamageFactor for it to ensure it can't kill them in a few hits)

Yes I think I will make it tale 2 ammo to fire in the next version.
I added a Damage Factor to d'speril so if you came in with a full 40 ammo you could only do about 4000 damage total

The Ultimate DooMer wrote:There's very little to tell between the normal undead knights and the pestilence version though, maybe a better recolour or a size increase?

I wanted them to blend in and be hard to tell apart.

The Ultimate DooMer wrote:Some cool ideas floating around, the large-scale battles were fun, and nice slope and texture usage

Thanks :D

The Ultimate DooMer wrote:but a bit bare at times. E7M4 seemed a little awkward though (plus the mauler-fighting-shadow encounter seemed to be bugged, it wouldn't end). E7M5 has a bad texture bug on the first ruin you come to after walking up the steep dark steps into the ruined outdoor bit. E7M7 has a couple of archways with main textures on them in the NE corner's green corridor area (where the chaos serpent on the lift is, speaking of which that lift has no way to lower you back down if you get stuck up there).

The E7M4 fight is supposed to end when you destroy all of the magic generators and open the exit portal.
Good eye I'll fix the texture issues.


How did you feel about the tome powered versions of the weapons?

Re: Heretic Amplified [Released!]

PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2011 3:05 am
by Caleb13
Powered-up crossbow consumes very little ammo. It is supposed to work like that?

In E7M7, there is this cloaked island/building in the lava pit. You have to flip four switchech to deactivate the cloaking. There is a minor bug in script which decloaks the building: when you flip any of the switches when the building is already decloaked, the decloaking sequence is played again. I would expect that the switches should become completely inactive.

To say the truth, I enjoyed the game as it was. It is true that there are copious amounts of ammo everywhere, but there are also lots of quite tough enemies. It is no exception that there are 3 or more Maulotaurs in one place and the Black artifact or Bone crusher help to dispose of them rather quickly. To me, that is more fun than 5 minutes long desperate fight with weak weapons... especially when those metal golems can kill you from full health/armor in three punches and there are several traps which suddenly place you in a room full of them. In fact, I had only 3 or 4 Black stones left when I finally made it to Dsparil, so I had to fight him mostly with the Bloodsphere.

Re: Heretic Amplified [Released!]

PostPosted: Tue Apr 26, 2011 7:03 pm
by amv2k9
I haven't tried out the tomed versions of the weapons, but here are some observations:

Bone Shredder should have scarcer ammo. Perhaps enemies would have a special "bone death" state that, when killed, causes them to not drop bone ammo? That way, you get the player to switch up weapons usage so they can't just use the shredder all the time on enemies who will drop bones when defeated.

Ammo regen for the Lightning Rod seems kind of pointless; ammo isn't that scarce for it. Perhaps ammo pickups could be reduced, and the regen used for a melee attack, i.e, whack enemies with the rod to "charge" it? That way the player can get back ammo for the rod if he needs it, but it's still a risk-reward type thing.

Re: Heretic Amplified [Released!]

PostPosted: Sun Jul 24, 2011 8:34 am
by Hereticplayer
That mod is dead. :( Zdoom says: "Script error, "HereticAmpFinalBeta.pk3:Monsters.wad:DECORATE" line 14:
"species" is an unknown actor property" Fix that mod. :?

Re: Heretic Amplified [Released!]

PostPosted: Sun Jul 24, 2011 10:21 am
by Gez
Get a version of ZDoom that was published after the fall of the Roman Empire, not before.

Re: Heretic Amplified [Released!]

PostPosted: Wed Apr 28, 2021 9:30 am
by scaramousche
Love the WAD, but I encounter a console error whenever I try to use the Moon Rod, I tried both GZDoom (4.5.0) and LZDoom (3.87):

Code: Select allExpand view
VM execution aborted: Invalid class HereticPlayerAmp in function call to MoonRod.StateFunction.10. Moon Rod expected
...

(It then lists a bunch of calls but I'm not sure how to copy them from the console)
Is there anything I can do to fix this? I tried playing around with GZDoom options (different renderers etc), but to no avail.

Re: Heretic Amplified [Released!]

PostPosted: Thu Apr 29, 2021 12:39 am
by ramon.dexter
Are you aware of the fact that last post happened ten years ago?

Re: Heretic Amplified [Released!]

PostPosted: Thu Apr 29, 2021 2:14 am
by Gez
Based on the error message, it looks like the mod's DECORATE code contains a mistake that wasn't caught by previous ZDoom versions, but which is intercepted now. You can try using an older version of the port (the last one before ZScript should be safe) or look into the mod's code to try to fix the issue there.

Looking at it, in HereticAmpFinalBeta.pk3, in Weapons.wad, the offending code seems to be in the sixth DECORATE lump (the one that starts with a definition for MoonAmmo). There's a call to A_LookEx which is completely out of place for a weapon actor. And it's using it so that the player can acquire a target somehow so as to be able to later use a monster function, namely A_VileTarget. Somehow this was accepted by the engine but it's definitely not valid practice.