[Demo] ZBlood+ demo (2012.03.23, p1)

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Agent36
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Re: [Demo] ZBlood+ demo (2012.03.23, p1)

Post by Agent36 »

Okay, I tried running this in the latest GZdoom. I couldn't get the lighting right though, could someone help me out with that?

As for the Mod: It's Blood. It's definitely Blood. It doesn't feel like Doom's interpretation of Blood or some bad fan mod. It definitely feels like Blood. I agree with a lot of suggestions so far, the Cultists need to be more accurate and improved A.I. The Spectres (Grim Reaper Ghosts) should not be firing at you. And the arc for throwing Dynamite needs to be tweaked a little bit.

But hey, amazing mod so far. Please don't abandon it. It would make a great Mod and will go well with BloodXL http://xlengine.com/
Agent36
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Re: [Demo] ZBlood+ demo (2012.03.23, p1)

Post by Agent36 »

Other bugs I noticed:

Shotgun is not powerful enough. One alt fire is more than enough to kill a single zombie in Blood.

Gargoyle's have a bizarre A.I. pattern and they dish out too much damage, never hover low enough to Pitchfork them to death, and it seems like their health is almost tripled. That or the Shotgun needs a severe damage buff.

I've noticed Cultists just sliding around at break-neck speeds.

First level: I used alt fire on the Dynamite for a crack in the wall, it exploded instantly (I was right next to the crack) I took no damage, the wall cracked open revealing the secret, and I could still see the Dynamite laying there and it never went off.

Please nerf the bats. They were never that aggressive in Blood and they have a weird hitbox that makes them extremely difficult to hit. Also, tone down the number of rats in Normal mode.
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Snarboo
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Re: [Demo] ZBlood+ demo (2012.03.23, p1)

Post by Snarboo »

Agent36 wrote:Shotgun is not powerful enough. One alt fire is more than enough to kill a single zombie in Blood.
I think the problem is that ZBlood has the number of pellets the shotgun fires wrong: the primary fires 16 pellets, while the secondary fires 32. The primary fire also does one point of damage less than it's supposed to.
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ibm5155
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Re: [Demo] ZBlood+ demo (2012.03.23, p1)

Post by ibm5155 »

hey, mapping wouldn´t be that hard, it is going to be much easier because gzdoom can run build maps (at least the maps with no slopes, 3d floors and textures), but this´s easy too, texturing and slooping isnt that hard
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zZaRDoZz
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Re: [Demo] ZBlood+ demo (2012.03.23, p1)

Post by zZaRDoZz »

@ibm5155

Blood doesn't use build's standard map format. They'd do better to use transfusion's actual 3d maps, assuming there's a way to convert quake 3 maps into doom maps...
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ibm5155
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Re: [Demo] ZBlood+ demo (2012.03.23, p1)

Post by ibm5155 »

hmm that´s not so easy so, you need to do by the hand so, creating something new exactly how the original was, maybe using the blood editor, comparing the values of heigh in blood and transfering it to doom builder (i did it for a experimental de_dust2 map, i got a nice result =D)
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Ral22
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Re: [Demo] ZBlood+ demo (2012.03.23, p1)

Post by Ral22 »

I really like the work you've done on this. It's pretty impressive, especially that hugely complex movement system. It's pretty spot on to Blood, about as spot on as you can get the movement system to be. Although I did come across some problems and had found some areas that might need improvement or suggestions.

Commendable:
- The movement system. It's totally wicked.
- The addition of 3-D items instead of voxels was nice.
- The smoother animations for some things, like the pitchfork, is nice.

Suggestions:
- The blood decals on the floor should either be decreased in size or reverted back to the original Blood kind. I found them to be too large, and with the amount of blood-shed it gets to be a little much.
- The Flare Gun kills too quickly in my opinion, and flame death states are not long enough. They only last for a second or two. Also, flame guys don't damage you when they bump into you.
- I found that zombies do not get decapitated nearly enough, compared to original Blood.
- I would remove the warp sprite effect on the flames and spray can. It's too much.
- I believe the zombies are missing a frame or two of their running sprites. It just doesn't look as fluid as it does in Blood.
- Use Weapon.BobRangeX/Y, Weapon.BobSpeed, and Weapon.BobStyle to great effect, replicating Blood's bobbing as close as you can.
- Mouse aim seems to have no effect on Dynamite's throws.
- Speaking of dynamite, it's thrown too fast and not in a tall enough arch.
- Zombie heads have a knack for getting close to a wall and unable to kick it away from it.
- The weapons need faster weapon raises.
- Invisibility is still to akin to Doom's Partial Invisibility. Perhaps adding +NOTARGET to the power up might work, check the ZDoom Wiki to be certain.
- The Stone Gargoyle's projectiles cause terrain splashes.
- The attack range of the Pitchfork isn't long enough. Use A_CustomPunch and increase the range.
- Some of the sprites don't seem as high-quality as they do in Blood. I'm aware that the palette isn't in, but they don't seem as large or detailed, almost like they were compressed. Also, I'm aware it's not your fault, as you are just picking up the project, but I still thought I should point it out.

I think I've complained enough. Haha. I'll let you know if I find anything else.
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Ral22
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Re: [Demo] ZBlood+ demo (2012.03.23, p1)

Post by Ral22 »

So, I did a little fooling around with ZBlood in my spare time, and changed some things, I think, for the better. I'm not releasing my version as it's own thing, but I thought what I did edit I would bring up and show you.

First, I added one of ZDoom's newest features; Weapon Bob. After a little trial and error, I found this to be the closest to Blood's bobbing.

Code: Select all

Weapon.BobRangeX 0.5
  Weapon.BobRangeY 0.5
  Weapon.BobSpeed 0.5
  Weapon.BobStyle Smooth
Second, I extended the pitchfork's distance and tightened the horizontal spread to accommodate the new distance. See the code for the variables I changed. (I believe I added +20.)

Code: Select all

PUNG D 0 A_FireBullets( -11,args[1]+2,-1,7,"BulletSpark",FBF_NORANDOM|FBF_EXPLICITANGLE,62)
	PUNG D 0 A_FireBullets( -3 ,args[1]+1,-1,8,"PitchforkSpark",FBF_NORANDOM|FBF_EXPLICITANGLE,60)
	PUNG D 0 A_FireBullets(  3 ,args[1]  ,-1,7,"BulletSpark",FBF_NORANDOM|FBF_EXPLICITANGLE,60)
	PUNG D 0 A_FireBullets(  11,args[1]-1,-1,8,"PitchforkSpark",FBF_NORANDOM|FBF_EXPLICITANGLE,62)
Third, I found that increasing the player height to around 10 or 11 felt more right. Also, lowering the speed to .7 instead of .9 felt more right as well.

Fourth, I removed one tic from the Raise and Lower states in some weapons, like the Shotgun and Flare Gun. I also added one tic to the Raise only of the Pitchfork, it looked more fluent afterwards.

Fifth, I removed the warp effect on flames and smoke. I thought it looked more like standard Blood, and the game ran much faster as well.

Sixth, I increased the chance of the Zombie being beheaded. I set the A_Jump in the Zombie's behead state to 60. That made it about a 1-in-10 chance of beheading.

Seventh, adding +SLIDESONWALLS to the Zombie Head doesn't get it stuck as often.

I hope some of these helped. Give them a shot, and if you like them, it saves you from figuring out the work yourself.
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doomjedi
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Re: [Demo] ZBlood+ demo (2012.03.23, p1)

Post by doomjedi »

Love this :)
If someone needed a proof zDoom kicks Build's b... :)

Only one problem - when I select flare gun I get problems and the game stalls/crushes.
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Agentbromsnor
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Re: [Demo] ZBlood+ demo (2012.03.23, p1)

Post by Agentbromsnor »

I liked it. Here's a couple of things I noticed:

- The 3D models were a nice touch. They felt true to the game's voxels.

- Some of the architecture from the original ZBlood was still in the first level (some areas are too small compared to the original game).

- The doors are also still like the ones in ZBlood. Like I posted at Zandronum's forum: you should consider using polyobjects or 3D midtextures to create the effect of the original game's doors. I know this is a small issue, but I think it detracts from Blood's atmosphere and it IS possible technology-wise so why not do it?
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Nash
 
 
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Re: [Demo] ZBlood+ demo (2012.03.23, p1)

Post by Nash »

Whoa that custom monster movement is so bad ass. Too bad they get stuck between you and obstructions. For example, in the first level's church, you can stand behind the seats and with a zombie on the other side of the seat, they'll just get stuck there because they're trying to move in a straight line towards you.

Also attempting to switch away from the flare gun makes the animation freeze. Using the latest GZDoom SVN.

Oh and FOR THE LOVE OF GOD please bring back the vanilla Blood floor blood splats. I can't stand those Brutal Doom splats.
Last edited by Nash on Mon Jan 28, 2013 7:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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ChronoSeth
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Re: [Demo] ZBlood+ demo (2012.03.23, p1)

Post by ChronoSeth »

Nash wrote:Also attempting to switch away from the flare gun makes the animation freeze. Using the latest GZDoom SVN.
That may be a result of this.
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Ed the Bat
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Re: [Demo] ZBlood+ demo (2012.03.23, p1)

Post by Ed the Bat »

ChronoSeth wrote:
Nash wrote:Also attempting to switch away from the flare gun makes the animation freeze. Using the latest GZDoom SVN.
That may be a result of this.
That was fixed in the recent SVN.
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Nash
 
 
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Re: [Demo] ZBlood+ demo (2012.03.23, p1)

Post by Nash »

Right, didn't realize there was a newer SVN executable.

More feedback:

- Dynamic light stays on burnt corpses even after the flames are out
- Bats are friggin' hard to hit because of the tiny hitbox
- Blood palette would be awesome
- Some of the tombstones should be voxelized
- The plants bleed red when shot
- Consider using polyobjects for the doors, just like in Blood
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Agentbromsnor
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Re: [Demo] ZBlood+ demo (2012.03.23, p1)

Post by Agentbromsnor »

Nash wrote: Oh and FOR THE LOVE OF GOD please bring back the vanilla Blood floor blood splats. I can't stand those Brutal Doom splats.
^This.

I think the rest is pretty damn good. But pleeeeeeeeease make swinging doors.

Please? :P

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