[Demo] ZBlood+ demo (2012.03.23, p1)

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Re: [Demo] ZBlood+ demo (2012.03.23, p1)

Postby Machalite » Thu Mar 29, 2012 4:24 pm

There's a real game-breaking issue with the blue reaper-like enemy that sucks the life out of you. If it turns 'solid' while occupying the same space as you, which is pretty much guaranteed to happen due to the nature of its attack pattern, you obviously both get stuck in place, but it will still be able to attack and kill you. You need a way to keep it immune while still a solid actor. Other than that, I can't help but feel that these reaper things are way too sporadic; you can't kill one without simply spamming your weapons.
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Re: [Demo] ZBlood+ demo (2012.03.23, p1)

Postby Ribo Zurai » Fri Mar 30, 2012 8:42 pm

Some more glitches:

- The floating bat corpse. Apparently it turns solid: blocks projectiles and you can't pass through. How ironic... :lol:
- The burnt victims' corpses. They will still have a flaming flickering GLDEF light on their bodies from the fire after they die.
- The Reaper. It's pretty damn hard to hit that thing, as it only turns solid when it's right inside your sprite, making your weapons almost unusable against it.
- The 3rd person mode: when you die because of fire, the camera will focus on a frozen frame of an exploding plasma shot from the original Doom game.
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Re: [Demo] ZBlood+ demo (2012.03.23, p1)

Postby Crudux Cruo » Mon Apr 02, 2012 9:44 am

So, this has got to be the best thing since tits were invented. a GL platform with the DOOM engine. seems pretty solid. however, i DO have some suggestions

Gameplay:

Zombies often take more that 1 double barrel spray. cant have that.
Cultists:
-need less health
-need faster rate of fire, and more damage
Gargoyles behave strangely, and need less health but faster attacks.
More maps, obviously, must be on the way, so that solves that problem.

Blood Purist:

-Dynamite doesn't fizzle down, and doesnt blow the meat from your hands when you hold it too long, like in blood.
lighter stayed up when changing between dynamite (i know its not that easy to do in DOOM)
-Cultists dissapear when dead, and their feet twitch.

Additions i'd like to see:

-Powerslave revolver; a starting weapon would be nice.
-Pump Shotgun: would be slower, less damage(than DB attack, more than 1B), and reload, but more accurate.
-Reloads on all weapons. it would bring more immersion IMO.
-DC-DEMO style health and armor boosts:
-Drinking to give say 10 armor a swig (10 swigs full bottle.), and can turn it into a molotov cocktail, shooting fiery puffs in all directions in a limited range (like an spraycan alt but better) drinks would be hard to find, a rare enemy drop from fat zombies.
-Smoking would enable gradual health regeneration, rather than be an attack. i thought that was stupid having to wait for the damn attack to end. What would happen is the cigs would be a rare enemy drop on cultists. it would be a usable item, and upon use, show caleb lighting it and bringing it to his face. from then on it would be a HUD display, with a lifespan of oh say 1 min and a half, and every puff cycle (5 seconds), you'd get 5 health.
-Headshots that would blast the head of Zombies, Cultists, Fat men, and Gargoyles. Headshots would give a 25% damage increase, but no insta kills or anything like that.
-Finally, ala "dinner with the preacher" on the blood wiki, caleb had to rip the heart out of his enemies chests. i would like to have a ritual knife that is used to attack a dead body that would give a 1 time 10% chance of picking up a heart (shadow warrior graphics are fine), and bringing it to face to consume.

so thats my two cents on the whole deal,. keep up the good work :)
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Re: [Demo] ZBlood+ demo (2012.03.23, p1)

Postby Мichаеlis » Thu Apr 05, 2012 11:31 am

A grandeur breakdown follows!

Ribo Zurai wrote:- The floating bat corpse. Apparently it turns solid: blocks projectiles and you can't pass through. How ironic... :lol:

This little thing is just asking for it!
For being redone from scratch.

Ribo Zurai wrote:- The burnt victims' corpses. They will still have a flaming flickering GLDEF light on their bodies from the fire after they die.

I thought this could slip in as a "bug-feature"... apparently, it won't :)

Machalite wrote:There's a real game-breaking issue with the blue reaper-like enemy that sucks the life out of you. If it turns 'solid' while occupying the same space as you, which is pretty much guaranteed to happen due to the nature of its attack pattern, you obviously both get stuck in place, but it will still be able to attack and kill you. You need a way to keep it immune while still a solid actor. Other than that, I can't help but feel that these reaper things are way too sporadic; you can't kill one without simply spamming your weapons.

Ribo Zurai wrote:- The Reaper. It's pretty damn hard to hit that thing, as it only turns solid when it's right inside your sprite, making your weapons almost unusable against it.

Now it can be damaged all the time. This is the only Phantasm type with this property of "corporeality" so far.

Ribo Zurai wrote:- The 3rd person mode: when you die because of fire, the camera will focus on a frozen frame of an exploding plasma shot from the original Doom game.

One more thing that I would have never found if I hadn't posted it here!
Thanks, fixed.

doomer1 wrote:Zombies often take more that 1 double barrel spray. cant have that.

That's probably because you don't aim too carefully. I remember that I have test-balanced zombies and shotguns against each other, and they did behave well the last time I checked.

doomer1 wrote:Cultists: need less health, faster rate of fire, and more damage

Apparently you haven't played it on the hardest difficulty. Or have you?..
Damage was hand-measured from Blood, health--taken from Blood Wiki. The things that I couldn't hand-measure nor find, however, were their accuracy and spread, and they might affect damage too.

doomer1 wrote:Gargoyles behave strangely, and need less health but faster attacks.

What exactly in them is unlike Blood?
Health--Blood Wiki.
Faster attacks--probably.

doomer1 wrote:More maps, obviously, must be on the way, so that solves that problem.

Yes, of course, it's going on! Though not too fast. Remember how it has been in works since 2010 and almost all coding was finished by last summer, and since then, only refining maps was taking its time toll.

On to purists' wishlist:

doomer1 wrote:-Dynamite doesn't fizzle down, and doesnt blow the meat from your hands when you hold it too long, like in blood.

Weird to no end. I did it, and it worked, I spent quite some time doing it, and it worked, here's my word for it!
Now it only blows you up. (More exactly, it takes more health in the very explosion than you can ever collect. I have right now lowered it for the future release, so that if you were in more-than-full health, you could enjoy the awful gory graphics of the blown hand before you fall from blood loss in a few seconds.)
As for fizzling down--it's difficult, but not impossible.
"If it's not impossible, then why it's not done yet?"
This demo is here so that people can enjoy something before stuff like this gets implemented (which happens at an insanely slow rate)

doomer1 wrote:lighter stayed up when changing between dynamite (i know its not that easy to do in DOOM)

Here, I don't think I know how to do this.

doomer1 wrote:-Cultists dissapear when dead, and their feet twitch.

Their feet do twitch, but not forever.
Now they disappear if not observed after 19.6 seconds after last twitch.

Now to progressors':

doomer1 wrote:-Powerslave revolver; a starting weapon would be nice.

There used to be a revolver back in the times. It is needless to say how bad it was.
However, if the Powerslave revolver is not that bad, it may be in. In a patch.
The possibilities are great, the question is which ones will work out.

doomer1 wrote:-Pump Shotgun: would be slower, less damage(than DB attack, more than 1B), and reload, but more accurate.

May be in. In a patch. If ever.

doomer1 wrote:-Reloads on all weapons. it would bring more immersion IMO.

May be in. In a patch not by me. There are many reasons, starting from not having sprites, ending with being scared at the amount of hassle.
But it may be in, as it's not impossible.

doomer1 wrote:-DC-DEMO style health and armor boosts:

Er, what's that?

doomer1 wrote:-Drinking to give say 10 armor a swig (10 swigs full bottle.), and can turn it into a molotov cocktail, shooting fiery puffs in all directions in a limited range (like an spraycan alt but better) drinks would be hard to find, a rare enemy drop from fat zombies.

May be in. In a patch. Not soon, if ever.

doomer1 wrote:-Smoking would enable gradual health regeneration, rather than be an attack. i thought that was stupid having to wait for the damn attack to end. What would happen is the cigs would be a rare enemy drop on cultists. it would be a usable item, and upon use, show caleb lighting it and bringing it to his face. from then on it would be a HUD display, with a lifespan of oh say 1 min and a half, and every puff cycle (5 seconds), you'd get 5 health.

May be in. In a patch. In a distant perspective, if ever.

doomer1 wrote:-Headshots that would blast the head of Zombies, Cultists, Fat men, and Gargoyles. Headshots would give a 25% damage increase, but no insta kills or anything like that.

Already in. Zombies suffer additional damage from being shot in the head. As for expanding, fine-tuning it--yes, surely expect.

doomer1 wrote:-Finally, ala "dinner with the preacher" on the blood wiki, caleb had to rip the heart out of his enemies chests. i would like to have a ritual knife that is used to attack a dead body that would give a 1 time 10% chance of picking up a heart (shadow warrior graphics are fine), and bringing it to face to consume.

Oh, that's something difficult--but, again, not impossible!
May be in. In a patch. In a very distant perspective, if ever.

doomer1 wrote:so thats my two cents on the whole deal,. keep up the good work :)

It's all the feedback, be it bugs, oddities, or suggestions, that rewards my hours of work on it!
Here go great thanks to all who have played and posted something about it :)
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Re: [Demo] ZBlood+ demo (2012.03.23, p1)

Postby Ribo Zurai » Thu Apr 05, 2012 11:37 am

Is it just me or the cultists are blind? They most of the time shoot in different directions instead of the player, and sometimes they just run away from me.
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Re: [Demo] ZBlood+ demo (2012.03.23, p1)

Postby Мichаеlis » Thu Apr 05, 2012 12:38 pm

1. Not just you. Back in Blood, cultists improved their aiming over several sequential attacks. But how can you improve your aiming if you're looking straight on target? For this reason, they have a random turn before they begin attacking, that they will narrow down during the sequence.
2. Again, "back in Blood", they did sometimes attempt something like retreat. It had never saved them, but I think it was something like Doom monsters' "fleeing" from solid obstacles, to allow them going around corners without actual path finding.
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Re: [Demo] ZBlood+ demo (2012.03.23, p1)

Postby Crudux Cruo » Thu Apr 12, 2012 12:21 pm

Мichаеlis wrote:A grandeur breakdown follows!

doomer1 wrote:Zombies often take more that 1 double barrel spray. cant have that.

That's probably because you don't aim too carefully. I remember that I have test-balanced zombies and shotguns against each other, and they did behave well the last time I checked.

doomer1 wrote:Cultists: need less health, faster rate of fire, and more damage

Apparently you haven't played it on the hardest difficulty. Or have you?..
Damage was hand-measured from Blood, health--taken from Blood Wiki. The things that I couldn't hand-measure nor find, however, were their accuracy and spread, and they might affect damage too.

doomer1 wrote:Gargoyles behave strangely, and need less health but faster attacks.

What exactly in them is unlike Blood?
Health--Blood Wiki.
Faster attacks--probably.

doomer1 wrote:More maps, obviously, must be on the way, so that solves that problem.

Yes, of course, it's going on! Though not too fast. Remember how it has been in works since 2010 and almost all coding was finished by last summer, and since then, only refining maps was taking its time toll.

On to purists' wishlist:

doomer1 wrote:-Dynamite doesn't fizzle down, and doesnt blow the meat from your hands when you hold it too long, like in blood.

Weird to no end. I did it, and it worked, I spent quite some time doing it, and it worked, here's my word for it!
Now it only blows you up. (More exactly, it takes more health in the very explosion than you can ever collect. I have right now lowered it for the future release, so that if you were in more-than-full health, you could enjoy the awful gory graphics of the blown hand before you fall from blood loss in a few seconds.)
As for fizzling down--it's difficult, but not impossible.
"If it's not impossible, then why it's not done yet?"
This demo is here so that people can enjoy something before stuff like this gets implemented (which happens at an insanely slow rate)

doomer1 wrote:lighter stayed up when changing between dynamite (i know its not that easy to do in DOOM)

Here, I don't think I know how to do this.

doomer1 wrote:-Cultists dissapear when dead, and their feet twitch.

Their feet do twitch, but not forever.
Now they disappear if not observed after 19.6 seconds after last twitch.

Now to progressors':

doomer1 wrote:-Powerslave revolver; a starting weapon would be nice.

There used to be a revolver back in the times. It is needless to say how bad it was.
However, if the Powerslave revolver is not that bad, it may be in. In a patch.
The possibilities are great, the question is which ones will work out.

doomer1 wrote:-Pump Shotgun: would be slower, less damage(than DB attack, more than 1B), and reload, but more accurate.

May be in. In a patch. If ever.

doomer1 wrote:-Reloads on all weapons. it would bring more immersion IMO.

May be in. In a patch not by me. There are many reasons, starting from not having sprites, ending with being scared at the amount of hassle.
But it may be in, as it's not impossible.

doomer1 wrote:-DC-DEMO style health and armor boosts:

Er, what's that?

doomer1 wrote:-Drinking to give say 10 armor a swig (10 swigs full bottle.), and can turn it into a molotov cocktail, shooting fiery puffs in all directions in a limited range (like an spraycan alt but better) drinks would be hard to find, a rare enemy drop from fat zombies.

May be in. In a patch. Not soon, if ever.

doomer1 wrote:-Smoking would enable gradual health regeneration, rather than be an attack. i thought that was stupid having to wait for the damn attack to end. What would happen is the cigs would be a rare enemy drop on cultists. it would be a usable item, and upon use, show caleb lighting it and bringing it to his face. from then on it would be a HUD display, with a lifespan of oh say 1 min and a half, and every puff cycle (5 seconds), you'd get 5 health.

May be in. In a patch. In a distant perspective, if ever.

doomer1 wrote:-Headshots that would blast the head of Zombies, Cultists, Fat men, and Gargoyles. Headshots would give a 25% damage increase, but no insta kills or anything like that.

Already in. Zombies suffer additional damage from being shot in the head. As for expanding, fine-tuning it--yes, surely expect.

doomer1 wrote:-Finally, ala "dinner with the preacher" on the blood wiki, caleb had to rip the heart out of his enemies chests. i would like to have a ritual knife that is used to attack a dead body that would give a 1 time 10% chance of picking up a heart (shadow warrior graphics are fine), and bringing it to face to consume.

Oh, that's something difficult--but, again, not impossible!
May be in. In a patch. In a very distant perspective, if ever.

doomer1 wrote:so thats my two cents on the whole deal,. keep up the good work :)

It's all the feedback, be it bugs, oddities, or suggestions, that rewards my hours of work on it!
Here go great thanks to all who have played and posted something about it :)


Thank you for your replies, i sincerely appreciate it; however i would like to clarify some things:

1.) Zombies. In extra crispy, they do indeed take more than a full spray. however, in well done, which i normally play, 1 well aim shot takes down a zombiemen, in the chest, 100% of the time. in your well done, it usually takes more than one barrel. the cultists too. aside from that though, zombie ai is perfect, although they stay down for longer than in blood it seems.

2.) Cultists. more often than not, the behavior of cultist involves more of their "seeking" behavior than shooting. their rate of fire and damage is also slow, compared to blood. i do realise that the way build does it and doom does it is different, but as it is, it seems like cultists are alot harder to kill than they used to be, but fire and attack less aggressively. other than that, machinegun cultists were lest frequent than shotgun cultists.

3.) Gargoyles. same type of stuff. i remember that gargoyles often face hugged ya and spammed their claws (probably an oversight from the blood team since the scratch sound played over and over when you tore them up with a tommy), but now they seem labotomized. they, most of all, seem to suffer from the transistion from blood to doom.

4.) Revolvers, Shotguns, and Reloads. nice things, that most definitely would be a seperate thing.
i can most certainly see that your main focus is to get a fully functional blood remake, and i respect that. but the wonderful thing about remakes is that you can improve on the original; and with these, i think you could. the flare gun acted somewhat similar to a revolver, but it did its damage over time; a revolver would do all its damage instantaneously. it probably should use up flares for ammo, and it would take 2-6 shots (depending on difficulty level) to kill a zombie with chest shots.
Shotgun would be an earlier weapon than the double barrel, and finally, reloading would be seperate as well, as a addon.i have done a little work on something similar and it is not too terribly difficult to make the sprites, although i've been out of the game for awhile. but it would change original gameplay significantly enough that it should be done only after a 1.0 product is released, and probably done by the community.

5.) Don's Challenge, Drinking, Smoking, and all that nice stuff.
Don's Challenge was a project by Cory Whittle, a well known and talented TC maker that made what most people consider the best Doom Mod ever, immoral conduct, For the Edge engine. he also made it for zdoom, but it lacks from its counterpart.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B0D_ggJJQuA

Needless to say, it featured a interesting system to regain health, and according to "Blood: I Live Again, and Blood 2: The Unforgiven" it describes a detailed, gritty world which portrays Caleb as the typical anti-hero. Gideon potrays the killer of his god as a whoremongering sauced vampire-esk figure, and it would add a degree of humanity to caleb, as it did in DC-demo. Cory Whittle, now evaporated into thin air, made a masterpiece. it really felt as if you were Don, fighting a hopeless battle!

so that being said, it would be a nice directiom.

6.) Heart stealing. this is one thing i firmly believe should be added. i never really got the whole floating heart phenomenon. but that's just me.

In conclusion, most of this is just a diehard blood fan wishing for the ultimate anti-hero to be resurrected and represented in its fullness. the monster behavior, for a demo, is excellent. and of all the project going on concerning blood, you seem to be its most faithful enforcer. keep up the work! Crudux Cruo!
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Re: [Demo] ZBlood+ demo (2012.03.23, p1)

Postby darkhaven3 » Fri Apr 13, 2012 6:28 am

God damn this mod is illegal. It doesn't look too bad, though, although it does remind me that some maps in Blood were a little visually lacking
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Re: [Demo] ZBlood+ demo (2012.03.23, p1)

Postby Crudux Cruo » Fri Apr 13, 2012 2:32 pm

darkhaven3 wrote:God damn this mod is illegal. It doesn't look too bad, though, although it does remind me that some maps in Blood were a little visually lacking


Fuck off.

(User was warned for this post - disagreement does not equal a free pass to attack someone.)
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Re: [Demo] ZBlood+ demo (2012.03.23, p1)

Postby darkhaven3 » Sat Apr 14, 2012 2:00 am

Whoa, easy there. I'm just saying the mod itself looks faithful to the original it aims to reproduce, as much as is possible in the Doom engine, and I appreciate that, but the fact is... It's illegal. :) Just a 100% neutral statement.
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Re: [Demo] ZBlood+ demo (2012.03.23, p1)

Postby zZaRDoZz » Wed Apr 18, 2012 7:43 am

It's certainly true to say that any project using blood artwork or resources is illegal. Using such material is a violation of Blood's copyright.

Also illegal is the hex editing of Blood's exe. file, which is a violation of Blood's End user license agreement.


The first case might be alleviated with the use of a hasher program. The second case cannot be resolved without the permission of Monolith, Atari, or whoever has legal jurisdiction of over the EULA. A hasher program doesn't help in that situation. The Transfusion project is the only group to receive permission to do anything with Blood as far as we know.
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Re: [Demo] ZBlood+ demo (2012.03.23, p1)

Postby Creeping_Infected » Thu Apr 19, 2012 10:22 am

Execution could not continue.

Script error, "zbtextic.pk7:decorate/projectiles.txt" line 290:
"paintype" is an unknown actor property

Why?! :(

I'm using GZDoom, latest stable build.
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Re: [Demo] ZBlood+ demo (2012.03.23, p1)

Postby wildweasel » Thu Apr 19, 2012 11:07 am

"Stable" is the problem - you should try it with a recent SVN build.
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Re: [Demo] ZBlood+ demo (2012.03.23, p1)

Postby Creeping_Infected » Fri Apr 20, 2012 8:50 am

wildweasel wrote:"Stable" is the problem - you should try it with a recent SVN build.

Thank you. :)

About Mod: It's very laggy for me. How can I make it so blood pools cannot show up?

Cool mod though. /me kicks zombie head. :mrgreen:
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Re: [Demo] ZBlood+ demo (2012.03.23, p1)

Postby WallyTheBoogieBug » Sun Apr 22, 2012 6:59 am

This is just a request and I'm fine without it, but could you add another HUD option that resembles the original ZDoom HUD, only slightly modified to have the new ZBlood+-related information on it? Me and a friend of mine would prefer it that way than not.

Otherwise, awesome work! Looks like you're getting pretty far along! :3:
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