- Legacy Of Suffering -

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Re: Legacy Of Suffering: RELEASED!!!

Postby Logan MTM » Sat Nov 28, 2009 12:26 pm

@InsanityBringer
You're the first person that complains about the Jonh's Evil presage! ^^'
I'm sorry about the flashing pentagram. But John's life is not easy! :roll:

I'll remember of your comments in LOS II. Thank you! :wink:
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Re: Legacy Of Suffering: RELEASED!!!

Postby Mr.Green » Sat Nov 28, 2009 3:29 pm

Woot? Is there going to be LOS II?
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Re: Legacy Of Suffering: RELEASED!!!

Postby Logan MTM » Sat Nov 28, 2009 3:37 pm

Probably. :mrgreen:
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Re: Legacy Of Suffering: RELEASED!!!

Postby ProjectAngel » Sat Nov 28, 2009 4:30 pm

Truly the best piece of work I have ever played. Love the dark atmosphere.
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Re: Legacy Of Suffering: RELEASED!!!

Postby JimmyJ » Sat Nov 28, 2009 8:53 pm

This is like if DooM 2, DooM 64, and DooM 3 all had an incredible threesome. Very awesome, good job :D
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Re: Legacy Of Suffering: RELEASED!!!

Postby wildweasel » Sat Nov 28, 2009 9:28 pm

Why can't I skip the intro?!

This is the one thing that bothers me about virtually any story-based mod!
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Re: Legacy Of Suffering: RELEASED!!!

Postby Ro4dk1ll » Sat Nov 28, 2009 10:01 pm

The architecture and fine details in this wad are great, and I am particularly impressed by this because this kind of detail and atmosphere in a doom mod has been something I've been trying to achieve for quite a while now. However, gameplay wise, having where I've been and where I'm going fill up with monsters every time I turn the corner is getting old really fast, especially with all these hitscan opponents. The areas most firefights are staged in are also rather cramped and strafing around enemies can often result in getting stuck on a bit of detail. I know that rooms like this are a part of the Doom 3 style of architecture, but it really doesn't fit in with the Classic Doom-esque style of throwing a metric fucktonne of enemies at the player, and doing that while blasting Painkiller fight music really ruins the creepy atmosphere you've achieved with your wad's design, being why id didn't do that with Doom 3.

Overall, this wad is definitely worth playing simply to see something different being done with a Doom source port, but I feel the gameplay and atmosphere suffers too much from being mismatched to call this a masterpiece.

Hate to be the critic, but I feel someone had to say that.
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Re: Legacy Of Suffering: RELEASED!!!

Postby Logan MTM » Sat Nov 28, 2009 10:10 pm

Ok...

Thanks by your comments but...

Now, can you talk about the positive points of my work?
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Re: Legacy Of Suffering: RELEASED!!!

Postby Ro4dk1ll » Sat Nov 28, 2009 11:20 pm

The detail, design of the levels and atmosphere (if no attention is paid to the monster : available space ratio) are all strong points of the mod, and there is a lot of potential to do something really great with your style of level design. The new weapons were nice(but the armory does need to be increased if any expansion is made to the mod), GZDoom and ZDoom features have been used really well, especially in the case of decorate special effects and scripted sequences, and really, my main issue with monster placement is due to the cramped available space given where firefights are staged and any perceived shortcomings could probably be easily improved upon.
I didn't actually find the gameplay to be terrible, either, and some firefights were well done, while others tended to make me want to quit out of frustration,
Spoiler:
or simply weren't that interesting,
Spoiler:


Despite the fact that I don't particularly like the mod's gameplay, I still think that it is a rather impressive mod that clearly distinguishes itself from the majority of mods made for Doom.
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Re: Legacy Of Suffering: RELEASED!!!

Postby oODemonologistOo » Sun Nov 29, 2009 4:04 am

I haven't found any flaws myself, scary enough, hard enough, fun enough... No way, it was totally awesome !!! It's like heaven on earth, it's like...
Spoiler:
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Re: Legacy Of Suffering: RELEASED!!!

Postby Phml » Sun Nov 29, 2009 4:36 am

I actually liked the pacing, usually in "modern" styled wads you only see a few monsters and it's boring as hell, while here it retains what makes classic Doom fun to me (fighting hordes of monsters), with a good atmosphere. I haven't ran into problems with the details either, most of it is on the walls / ceiling and doesn't impede the player movement in any way. Sure, it's straightforward, and fights are very repetitive, but that doesn't make it bad. In fact, I'd rather have a well-polished, completely linear experience than an average map that tries to be more open.

Of course, I enjoyed the original Painkiller and Serious Sam 1, so YMMV if you didn't.

The cutscenes I've seen so far last only a few seconds and are used effectively, i.e. to show monsters spawning in an out-of-sight location, rather than some pointless camera waving around something for a full minute. I would like to have the option to press "Use" to skip text without having to wait for it, and that's about the only negative thing I can say about LoS. The weapons are completely silly, in a good way. Fun to use, and I like how even the regular shotgun has its uses compared to the quad one (no reloading).

Basically, this mod lets me shoot tons of stuff and looks great. That's more than what I can usually say for ZDoom wads and to say I was pleasantly surprised by this would be an understatement. Easily in my top5 wads for 2009.
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Re: Legacy Of Suffering: RELEASED!!!

Postby David Ferstat » Sun Nov 29, 2009 5:17 am

Ok, call me Mr Thick-as-a-whale-sandwhich, but I'm not getting anywhere here. :oops:

I've downloaded los.zip, and it opens up just fine, so I'm presuming that the archive is undamaged. As the text file says that it contains maps "LOSMAP01 - LOSMAP09 and LOSINV01", I'm trying to run it with the following command:

gzdoom -file los.zip -warp LOSMAP01

GZDoom reports that it has loaded los.zip, containing 3 lumps. However, it later fails with a fatal error, reporting that:

"Execution could not continue.
Could not find map MAP00"

However, if I try to run it with just:

gzdoom -file los.zip

GZDoom reports, again, that it has loaded los.zip, with 3 lumps, but a new game drops me straight into Doom2's Map01.

And, yes, I am using the r635 subversion of GZDoom 1.3.14.


There is, I must presume, something fundamental and obvious that I've missed, but I'm damned if I can work out what it is. Any help will be gratefully received.
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Re: Legacy Of Suffering: RELEASED!!!

Postby Nash » Sun Nov 29, 2009 5:26 am

You have to extract the archive. Contained within is the los.pk3 which should be all you need if you want to play with GZDoom. Latest GZDoom SVN executable recommended.

(There's another file in there as well, which I assume is a patch WAD for Skulltag... you can ignore this)

Also, the maps are beautiful... can't make a full comment on gameplay yet because I was just running around with god mode - but I'll do a proper playthrough soon.

Oh and for the love of god, please make the cutscenes skippable.
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Re: Legacy Of Suffering: RELEASED!!!

Postby Enjay » Sun Nov 29, 2009 6:44 am

Did you get anyone to proof read the English? I suspect so because I know it's not your first language and, generally, it's pretty good but there are places where it is a bit dodgy. And the spelling of "teatcher" (sic) on the credits screen really looks weird. ("teacher" is correct).

If Jimmy91 has any spare time, he is a fully paid up member of the grammar police and seems to love getting stuck into this stuff. He may be the man for the job. (I know that he is very busy with another project ATM though.)

All in all, just like the beta, this is an absolutely cracking piece of work and I love the stuff you've added since the version that I saw - all the polish and stuff that lifts it even further above the bar. I personally still find the "swarms and swarms" gameplay style not quite to my taste but it is just an issue of taste, it is not a bad feature and many people clearly love it. The flashing pentagram is still a bit too frequent for my liking as well. Usually I don't like unskippable cutscenes and, clearly, other people want them to be skippable but, in the case of LOS, to me they feel integral to the game and I haven't wanted to skip a single one - even on replay - (and, unlike others, I think the momentary flash of white during the scenes works really well).

Anyway, the bottom line is that this is an absolute Rolls Royce* of a project project. One of the best, most complete and most immersive project to have been made IMO and it really does a whole load to capture what Doom is about and updates it for a modern audience. Well done to you and the team.


*cultural reference = an expression meaning "the best", characterised by the ultimate levels of build and quality.

[edits]spelling[/edits]
Last edited by Enjay on Sun Nov 29, 2009 6:57 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Legacy Of Suffering: RELEASED!!!

Postby David Ferstat » Sun Nov 29, 2009 6:44 am

Sigh ... told you it would be something pretty obvious.

LOS now loads ... sort of. I say "sort of" because GZDoom keeps crashing at the TITLEMAP.

GZDoom crash reports appended here:

CrashReport1.zip
(18.05 KiB) Downloaded 44 times

CrashReport2.zip
(17.89 KiB) Downloaded 38 times

Now, while I know that my XP install is a bit flaky, and in need of a re-install, I'm still a bit surprised.

Enlightenment is still welcome. :)
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