Z-Wolf is evolving...somehow...

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Is this a good idea? Or would it just be a waste?

Great idea! Continue!
13
48%
Not a bad idea.
8
30%
Why? We already have WolfenDOOM.
2
7%
No it is not, don't waste our time -_-
3
11%
Stick with keeping a mod, not a port.
1
4%
 
Total votes : 27

Z-Wolf is evolving...somehow...

Postby nick112147 » Sun Oct 07, 2007 2:12 am

Last night I went and downloaded the ZDoom source. Well after about an hour of poking around, I begain thinking "oh I can change this and that would blah blah blah". The more I looked into the code the more I found. The original goal of Z-Wolf was to be a simple, but faithful reproduction of Wolfenstein 3D using ZDoom. However, this has changed dramaticaly, with every passing hour I change something inside the source code, to try and make it the best it can be. So, I think it is safe to say, Z-Wolf is becoming a souce port, based on the blessed gift from Randy Heit which we call ZDoom.

To say the least I was NOT expecting this, but I wanted to make something unique. If this pisses Randy off then I am super sorry. I am not entirely sure what I am going to do all together, because so far I have just been experimenting with new compression routines for the main game files.

I abandoned my old thread because it no longer served its purpose, It was about a mod, not a source port. While this will be a minor source port, it should still be unique.

Here is the original thread:
http://forum.zdoom.org/potato.php?t=14907

Thoughts and suggestions welcome.

~Nick

P.S. for those who are easily confused, YES this a source port, designed to emulate wolfenstein 3d with the benefits of the ZDoom engine + my own little dash of chaos.
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Re: Z-Wolf is evolving...somehow...

Postby Gez » Sun Oct 07, 2007 3:17 am

nick112147 wrote:If this pisses Randy off then I am super sorry.


Has he been pissed off by ZDoomGL, bZDoom, ZXDoom, GADoom, GZDoom, CSDoom, ZDaemon, Skulltag... ? It's free software. Part of the point is to let other people make their own fork of it.

Plus, if some of the changes you do are potentially good for ZDoom too, there's always backportation.

So, if you're going to turn ZDoom into a Wolf port, you're going to have it load Wolfenstein data files and convert them on the fly into Hexen-format maps (which ZDoom uses internally)? How you deal with the pushwalls and the sliding doors ought to be interesting. Sliding doors can be automatically converted into polyobjects, but pushwalls are a trickier issue.
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Postby nick112147 » Sun Oct 07, 2007 3:30 am

Actually no, I don't plan on converting maps in wolf3d format into hexen format. That's A. a waste of resources and B. a rigid system. I would rather keep using the normal zdoom/hexen map format. That way I wont have to worry about data corruption AND that format is way more flexable. The pushwalls will actually be quite easy. Using polyobjects, I will set the movement amount to say, 256, or basicaly 4 64x64 blocks. In the original wolf3d map format, pushwalls always moved back 4 blocks, so to make a secret room you always made the entrance 5 or 6 blocks long. Vertical and horizontaly moving pushwalls can be made by just using two different polyobjects, just like I did vert and horiz moving doors. I know it sounds like I am being cheap about the maps, but the Hexen format offers much more flexibility. One major change will be the use of different file formats; I may completely get rid of the .wad format and move on to the pk3 format for everything, along with a better compression routine.

One thing about secret doors is that since the hexen map format is'nt limited to 64x64 units, and that vert moving doors dont require poly objects is that I can make secret rasing bookshelves lol. Just a random idea.
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Postby Nash » Sun Oct 07, 2007 3:36 am

Not a bad idea. I'll be watching your progress.

Also, if you do implement some super-duper neat feature into your source port, you should contribute it to ZDoom by posting it in Feature Suggestions. :D
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Postby hitmanx » Sun Oct 07, 2007 6:42 am

i'm still not sure what you are trying to do..

Emulate wolfenstein? if so it's been done, and no NOT wolfendoom. A proper wolf3d convert to zdoom almost flawlessly.

Maybe add some cool graphical effects like gldoom is planning to do, but i think it died, or something, i dunno.
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Postby nick112147 » Sun Oct 07, 2007 11:08 am

Lots of great things have been done over and over and over, getting better each time, its called evolution. And dude, if you STILL dont know what it is, then you didnt read the old thread I gave a link to did you? lol I think I explained it twice :roll:

Anyway, yeah I am officialy getting rid of the wad format, it is old, archaic and time to be put to bed!
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Postby Nash » Sun Oct 07, 2007 11:21 am

How about creating a new map format? *nudge nudge* :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
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Postby nick112147 » Sun Oct 07, 2007 11:28 am

How about creating a new map format? *nudge nudge*


I could TRY! But what could I add/take/modify? Perfection is not when there is nothing left to add, but rather when there is nothing left to take away. If you have any ideas as what to change about the map format, the PLEASE lol, let me know.
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Re: Z-Wolf is evolving...somehow...

Postby leileilol » Sun Oct 07, 2007 11:30 am

Gez wrote:It's free software.



Wrong.
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Postby nick112147 » Sun Oct 07, 2007 11:32 am

And HOW is it not free software? ZDoom and its source are GPL, that means free. And I dont have to cut Mr.Heit a check for either the files OR the source, so its.....guess what....free.
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Postby jallamann » Sun Oct 07, 2007 11:47 am

nick112147 wrote:ZDoom and its source are GPL

Since when?
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Postby nick112147 » Sun Oct 07, 2007 11:52 am

It is open source because he distributes the executables and source for free. Look on the about page: "ZDoom may be used and distributed free of charge. No profit may be made from the sale of it."
Zdoom is free software because we arent paying Randy for it in any way, other than a big thank you. Go ask Mr.Heit yourself, I dare you.

EDIT: I just emailed Mr.Heit, asking him if ZDoom is free and open source.

EDIT: ZWolf development is being put on indefinate hiatus, until I recieve a reply from Mr.Heit clearing up copyright and licensing matters. I was completely unaware that ZDoom was not free. I honestly thought it was, considering it says so on the 'about' page. So until I obtain a license, or Mr.Heit confirms ZDoom's free status, I won't touch the source or any other file for that matter. I dont want his lawyers knocking on my door lol :?.
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Postby Gez » Sun Oct 07, 2007 12:21 pm

It's not GPL, it's under the doom source license. Lei is just nitpicking because of the open source/free software distinction that Stallman and his army of fatbeards care so much about.

There's a lot of jargon which is explained here and which I felt wasn't much relevant in this discussion. I thought this was about some sort of mod or TC or source port for Wolfenstein.
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Postby nick112147 » Sun Oct 07, 2007 1:04 pm

Gez wrote:There's a lot of jargon which is explained here and which I felt wasn't much relevant in this discussion. I thought this was about some sort of mod or TC or source port for Wolfenstein.


It IS, or rather was going to be a source port based on ZDoom, specificaly meant to bring wolfenstein into the Doom universe, with special attention to mimicking features of the wolfenstein engine. The difference between what I am doing and what Laz Rojas did with WolfenDOOM is that this will use the wolf3d style maps, 64x64. Youre thinking any idiot can do that with Doom builder but I plan on adding other things to the engine to do a number of things, including a more streamlined file system etc. It is very hard to explain, sorry.

It might seem like I wouldnt need to modify the source, but from my standpoint, there are little things inside the ZDoom source that can be changed to make life easier a more faithful emulation, faster more modern file system and a few other things I think are needed. However until I get a response from Mr.Heit, and I can quote him, ZWolf shall remain on the drawing board. While Gez did provide more info, I feel more comfortable with talking to Mr.Heit about it. This is because he modified the Doom source code and managed not to get stashed in San Quentin for doing it.
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Postby Ryan Cordell » Sun Oct 07, 2007 2:01 pm

It'd be good if you'd be able to use the original Wolf3d data files (y'know, what Wolf3d NEEDS to run. =/) to be able to use ZWolf.

Using Wolf3d's mods (Hehe, End of Destiny. :twisted: ) with it would be just as awesome, if improbable though.
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