True Action : Personal Edition v2.19

[Mephistopheles]

Reupload?

[Crudux Cruo]

I have to say, this is what i was hoping to do for an edge project of mine, filling in mags with bullets and stuff, but edge isnt advanced enough yet.
anyway, i like where its heading, and for an alpha, and i say an alpha because not even all of the features work yet. good concept though.
suggestions:

-for the manual bullet loader, you should have the normal bullets or whatever, and be able to convert them into clips that way.
-the weapons are very rough, and you should probably give credit to wild weasel for his gun, the colt .45 (mag capacity 7+1 in chamber)
-there should be some more weapons, some of which i can give you because i have edited them, and/or asked permission for them.
-you should implement bullet casings that don't rely partially on sprites, ie a real dynamic casing code ie ww-diaz.
-you may want to try a counter strike like menu which the player can have access to in the beginning of levels to buy weapons/ammo, ie ww-cash.
-dont make a bunce of weapon pickups so that the player has like 30 weapons at a time, but rather have enemies drop ammo, or have a use state on dropped
weapons to give the player a choice to replace their current weapon.
-four slots, four weapons. slot one is melee (knife, fists, whatever), slot 2 is pistols (single, not double.) slot three is double pistols or machieneguns.
number four is assalt/heavy weapons (weapons like rocket launchers, ak's, and m60's (and yes, i do have tose sprites and sounds)).
-weapons should have a alternate attack.
- try playing the following mods for inspiration:
Zdoom: ww-diaz, doom 3 weapons, hideous destructor.
edge: icd-se, dc-demo, bf-cdoom.

that would be it for me, but if you need help with the mod, any weapons sprites i may have on me, would like a faithful beta tester, or would just like some ideas and suggestion, im at your service.

p.s Happy modding, hope you dont have too much trouble.

[Xaser]

Allow me to step in randomly and throw a couple of cents into the wishing well...

Your suggestions sound good, Doomer, but I have to disagree strongly with your weapon slot idea. In my opinion, there should never be more than two weapons per slot if at all possible. For EDGE it's not that big a deal but ZDoom doesn't remember which weapon was chosen last, so it gets to be a *huge* pain to switch to a weapon on another slot. Too many mods seem to suffer from "weapon overload", or at the very least, "backward stacking" (i.e. placing a weaker weapon in front of a stronger one on the same slot... Enjay, you're guilty here no matter how amazing your wad is. ). In this case, having four weapons on four slots isn't a very good idea... there's ten slots, so why why not use them up first before resorting to stacking? I figure eight slots with two weapons apiece would be fine here. Two is much easier to manage, in comparison.

Hehe, sorry... just a huge pet peeve of mine, this is. I admit I did break this in Zen (slot 1), though one was a steroid shot anyhow so I considered it a "supplement item"... eh, silly, right? I prolly should've put the Bloodsphere on slot 0 or something, but it's too late for that now. If I release one more version, Cutty's gonna have a heart attack.

[Enjay]

(i.e. placing a weaker weapon in front of a stronger one on the same slot... Enjay, you're guilty here no matter how amazing your wad is. ).

Guilty as charged - with the over stacking, certainly. There are too many weapons in the mod. The Thompson or rapid gun could be removed and one or other of the shotguns - and most of the melee weapons. And the little plasma pistol for that matter. Maybe one of the Hi-Ex weapons too. (I did warn people .) However, trimming out unnecessary weapons, and then editing the levels to make sure things were still logical and fair was something I simply couldn't be bothered to do ). I did it before for "Overlord" and it was a pain in the neck.

However, I'm intrigued (not offended, just interested) to know which ones you thought were "backwards stacked". Here are my thoughts on them...

The weapons on button 1 - if it's them, I agree they're a mess. Too many weapons doing similar things and, lets face it, most of them you aren't going to bother using anyway. The order for them is boot, stick, zapper and fist. It probably should be zapper, stick boot fist. I don't really know why it is set as it is ATM. Personally, I don't like having all those melee weapons, and I don't like having to cycle through them like that, but that's what I was asked for, so that's what I did. Actually, I think the zapper is in the file, but you don't actually get it at any point, unless you cheat. That doesn't make things any better though.

Button 2 is deliberately set with the "weaker" weapon first because, in practice, the weaker but faster and tighter grouped pistol is often more useful than the bigger, slower but more powerful shotgun. Most enemies can be dealt with effectively with the pistol and even bigger enemies can usually by kept at bay because of the relatively high ROF. The slower shotgun (using twice as much ammo) is less flexible and often requires a bit of fire, dodge behind a wall, wait, dodge back out, fire kind of action. The shotgun's ROF is slow enough that an enemy that isn't put down will often manage to return a shot before you can get off a second one - but the impact of that second shot will be far more devastating than the pistol, of course. The pistol is more likely to be able to get a second shot off before the enemy has had much chance to shoot at you. The shotgun's power drop off over distance is also more noticeable then the pistol. So, getting your hands on the pistol quickly is usually more useful than the shotgun IMO.

Button 3 is a close call. The rapid chaingunny thing is first and the plasma gun is second. Because the plasma gun has a slowish ROF, I'd say that the chaingun thing is the more useful and probably the more powerful. So, IMO, they are the right way around.

Button 4, again a close call. The reason that the shotgun and the Thompson are on the same button is because they are "unusual" weapons added to the full mod quite late. They are quite rare and I think most levels that have them at all have one or the other, but not both. The Burghead set is slightly unusual in that it has both. As to which should be first... I dunno. Both are quite useful and quite fun but I think the shotgun just has the edge for me, so it is first.

Button 5 I think is probably right. Rocket launcher first - big powerful, fast controllable. Hi-ex grenades next - still powerful but require a bit more finesse so not something you want to "snap shoot" with. Last, the phosphor grenades. Undoubtedly powerful but their use requires a bit of planning because, 9 times out of 10, you are going to lay down a fire trap and then have to wait until the flames die down. You have to plan that, to a certain extent, so having it last made sense to me.

Button 6 is back to being a close call. I consider the rail and the rifle almost equally useful but find myself using the rail more for its accuracy, range and penetrating power which, IMO, gives it the edge over the rifle which has a shorter range (at least I remember setting it to have a shorter range) and can only hit one target at a time. So, the rail is first.

Button 7 is the anomaly of a weak plasma pistol being on a high button (maybe that's what you meant). Waay back when the mod was simpler, and custom weapons weren't really possible, but weapons became importable from the other games, it was added as a Quake2-style ammoless blaster. The original (dehacked) doom weapons still occupied buttons 1-7 so button 8 was used as an emergency fall back weapon. My regular players still expected it to be on the last button when the weapon allocations were changed to the current setup.

Button 8 is for even more unusual weapons than button 4. It is meant for "special" or mission objective weapons. In the full game, there are 4 weapons tied to that slot (counting the one in the BH mod as 2) but, with the exception of the one in the mod, each one is only found on 1 level/mission. Up until I did the Burghead levels, the weapon you saw on button 8 was also only available in one level. It was added to the BH level set because it was a sizable mission rather than a level or two and the logic from the original level where it was available was that it was an Inca prototype weapon - so the Incas having it in that bunker made sense. Plus, it helps with those cyborgs . As for weapon order - again a close call. I don't really know which fire mode is the more powerful - the Hexen mage-like mode or the Strife disruptor.

So there you go. That's why they are like what they are. For the most part (ie not button 1) I'm pretty happy with them. If I was making the mod from scratch again, without it evolving as it has, I wouldn't group the weapons as they are. I'd have more ammo types and the weapons spread across the buttons a bit better. The current system of which weapon uses what ammo is as a result of the limitations of dehacked, and them using the same ammo was the logic behind some weapons sharing the same button. However, going back through all my levels and re-balancing old and new ammo types to suit the weapons on the level was a task I simply didn't want to do.

Sheesh! Always with the long posts. I should have been in bed 50 minutes ago.

So, anyway, which weapon slots did you think were "backward stacked"?

[Xaser]

Woo, nice response, Enjay! Hehe, didn't mean to cause such a ruckus, egad!

Anyhow, I see your point on the slot 2 weapons... I used the shotgun more often but I do understand that the pistol's much better during "emergency situations" (i.e. hit the 'panic button' and switch to a random something).
Though, I *did* think that slots 3 and 6 were backwards... the rifle seemed to overpower the rail, and unless you wanted penetration, the mancrusher is the better choice. And despite the plasma gun's slowness, I find it *much* more useful than the rapid-fire gun... the RF is very weak whereas the PG's bullets are rippers (group superiority!).
That and slot 7 was odd, but I see your point. Gotta please the target audience.

All right, so I overexaggerated... never really gave me much trouble, but slot 3 is indeed backwards to me. No biggie though.. I'm more of a Thompson fan myself...

[wolfman]

EDIT: Uploaded v2.19 to my MediaFire account.

http://www.mediafire.com/?zuwmymmmmmq

[Enjay]

Woo, nice response, Enjay! Hehe, didn't mean to cause such a ruckus, egad!

He he, nah, it's just me. I never know when to stop typing. I think Graf was on the receiving end of one of my most ridiculously long messages in the form of a PM asking for crouching. (And thanks to him for adding it.)

the rifle seemed to overpower the rail, and unless you wanted penetration, the mancrusher is the better choice.

Fair point. I think, versus a single human target and nice and close, yup, the rifle would win every time. It also seems better against a higher HP enemy of some sort. Originally, back in the days of DEHACKED, the rail was a modified plasma gun with the original DEHACKED railgun pointer and the rifle was a modified BFG with as many pistol shots as I could find spare frames for stacked up and firing instantly (20 in total I think). So, at that time, the weapons were on separate buttons (6 and 7). However, despite the fact that the original intention had been for the rifle to essentially be a sniping weapon, the relatively limited range of the Doom default hitscan attacks meant that the rail, with it's much longer range, tended to get used by my mates for long distance sniping. When I DECORATEd and consolidated the weapons, I kept the behaviour much as it was. )If I'd increased the range of the sniper rifle, there would be less point in the rail even existing - and I like it. ) On a straw poll, my mates seemed to prefer the rail out of the two, which is the main reason it's first. Me, I really don't know. I like the rail and find it more useful, generally, but there is something fun about gibbing a guy with the rifle. The rail, for what ever reason, does seem comparatively weak against larger or higher HP enemies and I'd much rather have the rifle in that case. Out of all the ones we've discussed, button 6 is the closest to being the wrong way around for me - but I'm really not sure either way.

And despite the plasma gun's slowness, I find it *much* more useful than the rapid-fire gun... the RF is very weak whereas the PG's bullets are rippers (group superiority!).

Again, fair enough. The ripping capability is a big plus in favour of the plasma. I like the RF against human individuals or small groups because I like seeing them dange around in pain on the receiving end of the bullet stream and they go down before you have gone through too much ammo. However, with a bigger enemy with more HP (I have some robots that are very similar in size and HP total to the mancubus - and some bigger than that too) the plasma really comes into its own. To take down something like that with the RF would use possibly hundreds of bullets. However, the plasma ripping through it does loads of damage and often keeps the bad guy immobilised for the bulk of the fight if you get it right. The slowness being the counter to that to give the enemy a chance of recovering and hitting you back - particularly if a shot or two goes wide. As I think I said, button 3 was a close call and the final decider was watching one of my mates play and just taking note of which one he tended to select on most occasions - it was the RF.

All right, so I overexaggerated... never really gave me much trouble, but slot 3 is indeed backwards to me. No biggie though.. I'm more of a Thompson fan myself...

And I really can't counter that.

Well, thanks for the feedback. It's actually very useful to get input like that and, although I don't see anything that you've raised as something I feel a burning need to change (because most of it is a matter of taste rather than clear-cut difference in functionality), you've encouraged me to think more about these issues and you were certainly right to raise them. I may look at the melee weapons again though.

Anyway, I seem to have hijacked the TA:PE thread. I return you to your normal viewing.

[Crudux Cruo]

Actually Xaser, what i really meant was only four weapons in four slots. as in you get ONE PER SLOT. i probably should have made it more clear...
i hate mods where the doomguy seems to have black hole pockets that he can pill rocket launchers out of, and so i suggested that only one weapon per category be chosen.

[GuestI]

Brief changelist:

- unused weapons were removed
- Particle fire effects (candles, torches ect both in Doom & Heretic)
- JDOOM modelpacks for Doom & Heretic were used (i was take only items and some decorations - they look good enough)
- Terrain lists for Heretic & Hexen
- New Hexen support: this time i decide not to make special player class for Hexen; weapons with slot number higher than 4 are selected with the help of scripts.
Default buttons 1-2-3-4- y(5) - u(6) - i(7) - o(8)
- A lot of stuff from Kinsie's Doom Enhanced. Thanks!
- Hi-res chaingun sprites
- New rocketlauncher; it can fire up to 3 rockets at once, altfire shots single camera mouse-controlled rocket.
...
a lot of other changes

http://postdownload.filefront.com/12501 ... 2acc8c2a6e

[przndoom]

where did you get the TNT bomb sprites..it looks familiar
good job btw

[GuestI]

where did you get the TNT bomb sprites..it looks familiar

Blood

good job btw