When zdoom makes the jump to 16bit color...

[Caligari87]

Yeah, sprites with 360 degrees of rotation. SWEET!

Wait, I could request a spriting system that allows that! Then we'd never need models!

[Mancubus II]

So why isin't there a doom model project of some sort? I have seen several good modelers on these boards, why has nothing been done?

There is, in the JDRP 1.1 project. Those are MD3 models for Doomsday, but they could just as well work in any engine that has md3 support. The bigger problem is directly translating the classic doom designs doesn't lend itself too well to a good 3d model, at least this is what I've come to realize.

[Graf Zahl]

So why isin't there a doom model project of some sort? I have seen several good modelers on these boards, why has nothing been done?

There is, in the JDRP 1.1 project. Those are MD3 models for Doomsday, but they could just as well work in any engine that has md3 support.

The bigger question is, who wants to play Doom with it? I'm sorry to say but I find all the monsters in there truly awful. Some of the items and decorations aren't too bad though.

[Phobus]

Maybe I'm not quite getting what I want to say across properly. I'll take a deep breath, and try again:

The majority of GZDoom looks better. The architecture, dynamic lights, light sorces and whatever else looks great. However, the game looks, well, wrong in my eyes when it's shown like that. It looks very good, but the textures, sprites and general graphics are being totally outshined by what it is that displays them. The full look, combined with the way the sprites work, looks very bad, the same applies for shooting up and down. I understand that this isn't as developed as it could be, but at the moment I've seen nothing that has made me shift my prefeference. I do have a copy of GZDoom, but it doesn't really do it for me.

[Graf Zahl]

In other words, you are one of those who can't accept improving the look of the game without replacing its content?

So what should I do about it? I can assure you right now that I have no intention to turn it into ZDoomsday. Yes, eventually there will be model support but the fact is that Doom uses sprites - and 99.9% of all resource changing PWADs do so as well. So they will be my primary concern and there simply is no way to do what you'd like to have with them in OpenGL. So be happy with the software renderer. Even Randy sees no future in it so someday you might find yourself left behind.

[Phobus]

Well, when the day comes that I'm left behind by my somewhat short sighted opinions on Hardware rendering, I'll probably not be playing Zdoom or modding it. This, for me, is only a hobby, or past-time. I don't expect my interests in it to last forever, though right now I'd probably say it will.

Maybe I'll come to accept hardware rendering and OpenGL in time, but right now I haven't found it particularly impressive.

[randi]

Heh heh. There's really no reason why you couldn't do a hardware renderer that uses a sliding window to do lookup up/down just like the software renderer. Then you wouldn't have to worry about how the sprites rotate with it.

[HobbsTiger1]

Heh heh. There's really no reason why you couldn't do a hardware renderer that uses a sliding window to do lookup up/down just like the software renderer. Then you wouldn't have to worry about how the sprites rotate with it.

You mean the sprites don't have to look like paper in GZDoom (they only start looking really good if you constrain the freelook angles to 30 degrees). Jeez. I guess polymost is gonna look ok then.

[Phobus]

The only problem with the rotation is, that when you look straight up at a sprite (such as an imp on an overhead bridge) it'll look like he's laying down whilsat moving. I know about sprites, I know that they take ages to draw and offer a fair bit of satisfaction when complete (Oh god do I!) but there is issues when they are combined with full look up/down.

[Graf Zahl]

Heh heh. There's really no reason why you couldn't do a hardware renderer that uses a sliding window to do lookup up/down just like the software renderer. Then you wouldn't have to worry about how the sprites rotate with it.

Who would want to do that? One of the major reasons to do hardware rendering is to get rid of that shitty look, isn't it?

You mean the sprites don't have to look like paper in GZDoom (they only start looking really good if you constrain the freelook angles to 30 degrees). Jeez. I guess polymost is gonna look ok then.

No, Polymost (at least the test code) is doing genuine rotations.

[Mike.Reiner]

Hardware rendering is the way to go for the future.

Definitely!

Yeah it is, I noticed that you did SOMETHING to gzdoom's gl renderer that fixed the GL problems that would occour if you used vanilla tricks..
very nice.

However, while hardware rendering may be the way to move, I don't care for fancy 3-d lighting or anything.
the latest version of ZDoomGL runs the bigger maps like crap..
example- Deus Vult II - there is a big mountain level in the works, and the framerate is extremely low due to the lighting, the map is so big and you see so much.... not to mention GL bugs all over the damn place..
whereas in GZDoom, there are no problems at all, the fps never wavers from 35 fps (yes, I use cl_capfps 1).
I hope that when skulltag gets GL support, it uses GZDoom's source, not zdoomgl.

all doom needs to look good is basic GL support with filtering, all the extra lighting and shit is wasteful and slows down a very fast game.
this basic GL in gzdoom can run big single player maps (Like say, deus vult map05) quite decently, where zdoomgl with it's lighting and shit, unplayable.

I do somewhat agree that GL looks too different for me, BUT, settings the texture filtering to none makes me feel right at home, the increase colour into 32 bit looks SO MUCH better than software.
lights, models, etc, don't really care all that much for 'em, however i'll definatly try out wads that are made with that sort of thing in mind.

basically saying, i'll play maps made with these lighting features in mind for GZDoom, but maps that were not made with it in mind, i'm gonna disable all the eye candy. all GL does that I really like is higher colour, and freelook.

[Graf Zahl]

all doom needs to look good is basic GL support with filtering, all the extra lighting and shit is wasteful and slows down a very fast game.
this basic GL in gzdoom can run big single player maps (Like say, deus vult map05) quite decently, where zdoomgl with it's lighting and shit, unplayable.

You got something wrong here. ZDoomGL is not slow because of the lighting. There is some bug inside the renderer that needlessly slows it down - even with lights off. I am unable to run any larger map with it at a decent speed. GZDoom has the same support for lighting as ZDoomGL and it is still significantly faster with highly detailed maps - even when lights are on.

I do somewhat agree that GL looks too different for me, BUT, settings the texture filtering to none makes me feel right at home, the increase colour into 32 bit looks SO MUCH better than software.
lights, models, etc, don't really care all that much for 'em,

however i'll definatly try out wads that are made with that sort of thing in mind.

basically saying, i'll play maps made with these lighting features in mind for GZDoom, but maps that were not made with it in mind, i'm gonna disable all the eye candy. all GL does that I really like is higher colour, and freelook.

I don't either - that's why the dynamic lights stuff is separate. I want the ability to play maps that define their own lights without the standard definitions.

(But I would never voluntarily go back to 35 fps!)

[Belial]

Deus Vult II

[cloud77]

Skulltag's OGL code will not be based on Zdoomgl and maybe will use GZdooms but Carn has said he has based it off a port and is modifing it so it will be unique

[QBasicer]

You already have the code to rotate the sprites to face the player on one axis, just extend the code to allow all the sprites to be anchored to the spot at their bottom and align the tops with the player. That would give back the look and feeling of the software ZDoom.