[No or already in] Characters

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Characters

Postby zdoom » Sat Jul 09, 2005 7:59 pm

like in hexen what if zdoom could have a character selection built in.
Like the MAPINFO lump there will be a lump called CHARINFO which will contain the following:

Speed: The default doom guy's speed is 128, you can make the chars faster or slower than normal!

Armour: same as above except with how much the Character can take before dying.

Also some other properties like strength, agility, intelligence.

Only some levels would have character selections (not DOOM2.wad) only levels with a CHARINFO lump.

also just a thought, what if U could edit the existing bad guys stats aswell.

Also with the characters there could be an inventory like in heXen
It sounds sorta stupid but I think it would be good having a max of 3 characters. Then we could take advantage of "cleric clas" "mage class" and "fighter class" when we're editing.
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Re: Characters

Postby Graf Zahl » Sun Jul 10, 2005 2:48 am

zdoom wrote:like in hexen what if zdoom could have a character selection built in.
Like the MAPINFO lump there will be a lump called CHARINFO which will contain the following:

Speed: The default doom guy's speed is 128, you can make the chars faster or slower than normal!


The default speed is 1.0. Why multiply it with another value?
`
Armour: same as above except with how much the Character can take before dying.


Sorry, but what do you mean by that?

Also some other properties like strength, agility, intelligence.


Don't exist.

also just a thought, what if U could edit the existing bad guys stats aswell.


Try Dehacked or inherit from them in DECORATE.

Also with the characters there could be an inventory like in heXen


It already exists. Doom can use all of Hexen's features.

It sounds sorta stupid but I think it would be good having a max of 3 characters. Then we could take advantage of "cleric clas" "mage class" and "fighter class" when we're editing.


That doesn't only sound stupid - it is stupid. It's a needless limit.


You really should check what ZDoom can so before making such suggestions in the future.
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Postby skadoomer » Sun Jul 10, 2005 12:32 pm

i think the only thing needed in this case which dosn't already exsist is the ablility to set the players skin through ACS, otherwise a hexen style character setup can be "faked" by using graf's suggestions.
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Postby Talonos » Sun Jul 10, 2005 8:19 pm

This is something wacky and out in left field, but I thought I'd suggest it.

I'd really like something where you could set the players max health, and the percent rating would reflect it.

Example: I'm assuming that 100% in the status bar means doomguy has one hundred health. Using this new feature I'm suggesting, I set the max health to be 50 instead. However, the statusbar will still say 100%. Doomguy takes 25 damage. 25/50 = fifty percent, so the status bar will say 50%.

Am I making any sense?

Basically, this will make the player seem stronger or weaker, but he will still have his 100% health (which is actually only 50). If I make custom classes, it avoids confusion with things like "What the heck! Why did I start off with only 50% health?"
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Postby David Ferstat » Mon Jul 11, 2005 3:08 am

Talonos wrote:... Example: I'm assuming that 100% in the status bar means doomguy has one hundred health. Using this new feature I'm suggesting, I set the max health to be 50 instead. However, the statusbar will still say 100%. Doomguy takes 25 damage. 25/50 = fifty percent, so the status bar will say 50%.


The status bar does not show a percentage of your maximum health. It show your total health in points, just as the armour readout shows your total armour in points. You can set the players maximum health through Dehacked. Marines Doom did just that to make enemy weapons as dangerous in the game as they are in real life; you can only take a few hits before dying because you start with a maximum health near 20.

Talonos wrote:... Am I making any sense?

Basically, this will make the player seem stronger or weaker, but he will still have his 100% health (which is actually only 50). If I make custom classes, it avoids confusion with things like "What the heck! Why did I start off with only 50% health?"


No, not really. Either your character classes are of varying health, or they're not. If a player wonders why they have less health in one class than another, either they haven't noticed the differences in the docs, in which case shame on them, or it wasn't in the docs, in which case shame on you.

If players think all classes have got the same health, but they don't, they're going to get confused, especially when they don't realise that monsters have suddenly become much more dangerous.

Basically, you should let players know what they up against. If their class can't take as much damage, they deserve to know about it so that they can alter their tactics.
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Postby Talonos » Mon Jul 11, 2005 5:39 am

David Ferstat wrote:The status bar does not show a percentage of your maximum health. It show your total health in points.


Yes, yes, I know that's how it works. That's what I'm asking to be changed. I know you can change max health via dehacked, but I think that's sloppy because

Talonos wrote:... Am I making any sense?
David Ferstat wrote:No, not really. Either your character classes are of varying health, or they're not.


To make myself more clear, I'm asking that they be of varying health while apprearing not to. You may not like it this way, but you wouldn't have to use it if it gets implemented.
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Postby Graf Zahl » Mon Jul 11, 2005 5:44 am

No, it doesn't make sense and no, it should not be implemented.
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Postby David Ferstat » Mon Jul 11, 2005 7:05 am

Talonos wrote:
David Ferstat wrote:The status bar does not show a percentage of your maximum health. It show your total health in points.


Yes, yes, I know that's how it works. That's what I'm asking to be changed. I know you can change max health via dehacked, but I think that's sloppy because


Because?

Talonos wrote:
Talonos wrote:... Am I making any sense?
David Ferstat wrote:No, not really. Either your character classes are of varying health, or they're not.


To make myself more clear, I'm asking that they be of varying health while apprearing not to. You may not like it this way, but you wouldn't have to use it if it gets implemented.


More than ten years of gameplaying for several millions of games world-wide have taught said gamers that, where you have a numerical readout of your health, this represents the number of standard "hits" that you can take before you're dead.

Please demonstrate the over-whelming advantage to, not just you and your mod, but Zdoom players in general, to justify not only turning this, overall, quite useful understanding on its head, but also the time and effort involved in coding and checking it.
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Postby Talonos » Mon Jul 11, 2005 7:30 pm

Is it really that difficult? Wouldn't you just have to change the display from displaying the number of health to displaying the number of health over the max health times a hundred percent? I'm no c++ guru, but i don't think it would be too horribly difficult.

Also, all of you are saying I don't make sense. Is this because you don't understand, meaning I should try to make myself clearer, or because you have alerady rejected this suggestion and thus don't want to bother trying to understand it, meaning I should shut up or else I will come off as stubborn?
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Postby DoomRater » Mon Jul 11, 2005 7:40 pm

By the way, the percent mark on the status bar is pasted there. Your Marine's health is actually measured in Hit Points, NOT a percentage. That's why no one can figure out why you want such a feature.
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Postby Talonos » Mon Jul 11, 2005 7:44 pm

Is it really that difficult? Wouldn't you just have to change the display from displaying the number of health to displaying the number of health over the max health times a hundred percent? I'm no c++ guru, but I don't think it would be too horribly difficult.
More than ten years of gameplaying for several millions of games world-wide have taught said gamers that, where you have a numerical readout of your health, this represents the number of standard "hits" that you can take before you're dead.
Doesn't this mean you should take 100 bullets before dying? A standard hit is whatever you define it to be. Doom decided that a standard point of damage is 1-7. This is entirely arbitrarty. If I change a players max health to be 50 (He's a spellcaster), then this hit will appear to damage him 2-14 instead, while the same hit will damage his fighter co-op friend by apparently 1-7. The mage has a standard hit of 2-14. The fighter, 1-7. Both are entirely arbitrary numbers, and make no difference anyway. Heck, a standard hit in strife is 1-4, and that doesn't confuse gamers. Unless they know about it, it doesn't even register on the users end. Both people have their status bars giving them a readout from 0 to a hundred percent, which is what everybody expects from doom.

Also, all of you are saying I don't make sense. Is this because you don't understand, meaning I should try to make myself clearer, or because you have alerady rejected this suggestion and thus don't want to bother trying to understand it, meaning I should shut up or else I will come off as stubborn?
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Postby DoomRater » Mon Jul 11, 2005 7:46 pm

Truth be told, if you're making a WAD you can do this yourself actually. I need to dig out Barista's code in order to counsel you on how to do it, but I don't see why the game's code needs to be changed.

EDIT: On second thought whoever made Barista should put the source in so that the rest of the players can actually see what's going on. o_O;;
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Postby skadoomer » Mon Jul 11, 2005 8:27 pm

so you basically want to be able to set the players health on a per class basis and have the health readout changed to reperesent a percentage, making it seem as if the characters health is out of 100.

You're making sense to me, but it sounds like you are asking for two different features to work in conjunction.
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Postby DoomRater » Mon Jul 11, 2005 8:30 pm

I totally forgot about the other part. Of course, setting health on a per class basis SHOULD be implemnted, but that's a way off. The part about setting HP to uh, show as a REAL percentage is... well... is that really needed?
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Postby David Ferstat » Mon Jul 11, 2005 11:33 pm

Talonos wrote:... Also, all of you are saying I don't make sense. Is this because you don't understand, meaning I should try to make myself clearer, or because you have alerady rejected this suggestion and thus don't want to bother trying to understand it, meaning I should shut up or else I will come off as stubborn?


Neither, by now. We know what you want, and we don't like your suggestion because you haven't given us any good reason for liking it, because it will confuse players, and because you haven't given us any reason (beyond the fact that you want it) to believe that it's going to be an advantage to anybody.

David Ferstat wrote: Please demonstrate the over-whelming advantage to, not just you and your mod, but Zdoom players in general, to justify not only turning this, overall, quite useful understanding on its head, but also the time and effort involved in coding and checking it.
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