[No] "mod" generator

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"mod" generator

Postby PixelWAD » Mon Sep 03, 2018 11:39 am

I know that this is entirely possible, but also it would involve A LOT of work...
I love modding Doom. It's one of the simplest engines to work it. Anyone can add anything to it.

But the more you start modding it, the more difficult it gets. At least that's my feeling with the experience so far!
I would love to see some kind of app that would make modding A LOT easier.

In a perfect world I see some kind of wizard that follows me through each steps.

What do you want to add?
Sprite/model

Is it decoration or monster actor/fpp weapon etc?
Monster

Insert sprites/define model frames to use for idle
Model.md3 0-30

Which frame defines shooting?
38

What kind of attack would you like?
80% pistol, 20% railgun

Is this gun reloadable?
Yes

Select the amount of ammo in a mag/total kept ammo
30/200

Select the sounds to be played for idle, fire, reload etc
X.wav, Y. wav

I guess you all get the point.
Of course this is way way much easier said than done, but I believe it is entirely possible and would be of a huge value to Doom community.

Right now I'm learning everything from other mods and Zdoom wiki. It's a lot of help. I believe that Doom modding gets easier with time, but this kind of tool would really boost everything up. It's not something anyone could write in a matter of months, this require dedication and skills.

And that is something I'm willing to throw money at. Perhaps a bounty hunter amount or so?

I don't expect anyone to come up with any tool like that, this is kind of a food for thought. Just a perspective of someone who love classic FPP games.

gzDoom to me is like a MUGEN, just a fpp engine that is easy to edit. By playing custom mods, I don't really play Doom anymore..

Maybe that is something that AI could learn more or less on it's own? We are all reading text files, AI could be possibly trained to do this.
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Re: "mod" generator

Postby Caligari87 » Mon Sep 03, 2018 11:51 am

This would actually make modding harder as you wouldn't have any control over most of the process. It would only be useful for the simplest of copy-paste scenarios, not the more complex stuff you seem to think it could handle for you. You'd be limited to whatever type of mod the tool creator thinks you want to make.

There have been similar projects in the past (DecorEd for example) and they never went anywhere except buggy proof of concept.

8-)
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Re: "mod" generator

Postby GFD » Mon Sep 03, 2018 11:59 am

Something like this would only exist as an external development tool, rather than a feature of the engine, and so isn't very relevant to the feature suggestions forum.
Making mods for GZDoom is already really gosh dang easy relative to other games, and there are lots of existing examples you can learn from. A "wizard" format seems much more limited while also potentially being more confusing. All of these questions and prompts are easily implemented in the actual code, once you are aware of how to specify these things, so I think all you're looking for is a beginner GZDoom modding tutorial, which I'm sure already exists.

As for using "artificial intelligence" to generate mods, if SLIGE is any indication, that might not be a great idea.
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Re: "mod" generator

Postby PixelWAD » Mon Sep 03, 2018 12:18 pm

I have already read countless tutorials and watches many hours of youtube videos on that subject... I still seem to find errors that shouldn't exists in most scenarios ;)
Yes, the ease of Doom modding is what convinced me to join, but i think it still could be easily expanded to make it even more inviting for new users.
Wizard could always give you the most basics things generated in seconds, like things included in zdoom wikia.

With the right set of questions, I think it could cover 75% of possible solutions, based on existing mods. And the very new complicated stuff you could always add in advanced as manual 'debugging' ;)

It's nice to dream of course. I just still seem to spend lots of time adding modeldefs, decorations, actor properties, then correcting all the little bugs or typos that still happen from time to time.

As for computer generated levels, OBLIGE seems to be much newer (last version from 2017) there is also one more more 'tech/doom3-alike' level generator and to be honest, I was really impressed and it's also very nice tool to create endless levels, even if sectors are repeating more or less. Combine this with custom monsters, weapons, textures... Doom is off the limits as FPP experience.
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Re: "mod" generator

Postby Graf Zahl » Mon Sep 03, 2018 12:54 pm

PixelWAD wrote:It's nice to dream of course.


This still has no place in the engine. If you want this, convince an editor developer to do it. :P
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Re: "mod" generator

Postby Rachael » Mon Sep 03, 2018 12:54 pm

GFD wrote:Something like this would only exist as an external development tool, rather than a feature of the engine, and so isn't very relevant to the feature suggestions forum.

Pretty much this.

This goes WAAAAAAAY beyond the scope of GZDoom.

@pixelwad: I think there have been attempts to make something like you suggested in the past but they haven't been very fruitful.
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Re: "mod" generator

Postby Kinsie » Tue Sep 04, 2018 2:49 am

PixelWAD wrote:I just still seem to spend lots of time adding modeldefs, decorations, actor properties, then correcting all the little bugs or typos that still happen from time to time.
That's mod development. And indeed, all game development in general. Lots of fiddly little things done here and there and all over the place, tweaking and changing and fixing and iterating, all in an attempt to convince rocks to think, and to dream.
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