[No] high angle viewed sprities

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high angle viewed sprities

Postby keithfishbiscuit » Tue Aug 21, 2018 10:21 am

Hi. This feature probably suggested by other users. What I hope one day GZDoom would do, is to allow custom monsters and pickups to have a high viewing angle without being paper like. I know you can enable the x y billboard thingy, but this is no t what I am talking about. I know that Zdoom supports 16 viewing angle and they are all oriented to horizontal view. Would be great if in conjunction with a editor of course allow modder to make a sprite to be viewed correctly in XYZ angles.
Keith out :D
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Re: high angle viewed sprities

Postby Kinsie » Tue Aug 21, 2018 1:54 pm

keithfishbiscuit wrote:Hi. This feature probably suggested by other users.
It has been, a number of times, and it's been rejected each time.
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Re: high angle viewed sprities

Postby Pixel Eater » Tue Aug 21, 2018 4:41 pm

I would be really keen ( :lol: ) for this too. I could do sprites for a monster or two if it happens...

The question is: will they rotate smoothly or jump between eight angles? :wink:
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Re: high angle viewed sprities

Postby keithfishbiscuit » Tue Aug 21, 2018 5:03 pm

Kinsie wrote:
keithfishbiscuit wrote:Hi. This feature probably suggested by other users.
It has been, a number of times, and it's been rejected each time.


but why? it would be a great feature, is it because it unfeasible in programming terms??
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Re: high angle viewed sprities

Postby Arctangent » Tue Aug 21, 2018 8:31 pm

keithfishbiscuit wrote:but why? it would be a great feature, is it because it unfeasible in programming terms??

Consider the following:

  • First, a standard monster sprite set already includes eight sprites per animation frame. By adding sprites for "directly above" and "directly below" to this, you'd instead need twenty-four sprites, tripling the workload. But just having those angles would look silly and you wouldn't even be able to see them in software, so you'd need include more angles, increasing the workload even more. About the only thing you'd see use this feature would be model rips, and even that's doubtful.
  • Actor sprites require a very specific naming scheme, which isn't expandable at all. Like, how would you add a top view of BAL1A0? BOSSE3? POSSF2F8? That's already up to eight characters, the max amount in the .wad format. Even if we make this feature .pk3-only, though, how would we add information for vertical viewing angle without confusing the parser?
  • There's no actual third point, but I'd like to reiterate exactly how much work it'd be to actually make sprites to use this feature. Do you even have any at hand that would make this not totally useless?

In conclusion, use models.
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Re: high angle viewed sprities

Postby keithfishbiscuit » Tue Aug 21, 2018 8:40 pm

Arctangent wrote:
keithfishbiscuit wrote:but why? it would be a great feature, is it because it unfeasible in programming terms??

Consider the following:

  • First, a standard monster sprite set already includes eight sprites per animation frame. By adding sprites for "directly above" and "directly below" to this, you'd instead need twenty-four sprites, tripling the workload. But just having those angles would look silly and you wouldn't even be able to see them in software, so you'd need include more angles, increasing the workload even more. About the only thing you'd see use this feature would be model rips, and even that's doubtful.
  • Actor sprites require a very specific naming scheme, which isn't expandable at all. Like, how would you add a top view of BAL1A0? BOSSE3? POSSF2F8? That's already up to eight characters, the max amount in the .wad format. Even if we make this feature .pk3-only, though, how would we add information for vertical viewing angle without confusing the parser?
  • There's no actual third point, but I'd like to reiterate exactly how much work it'd be to actually make sprites to use this feature. Do you even have any at hand that would make this not totally useless?

In conclusion, use models.


cool. I understand now. the reason i was pushing on this was because there is free look in openGL, and sometimes when you look down, the monsters look like paper "billboard", but of course, that why this effect is called so. ah, also pick ups also have this effect when you are really close and try to look down...
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Re: high angle viewed sprities

Postby Pixel Eater » Tue Aug 21, 2018 9:06 pm

Arctangent wrote:By adding sprites for "directly above" and "directly below" to this, you'd instead need twenty-four sprites, tripling the workload.
Agreed it would be a lot of work but I don't think you'd need underneath sprites for most things except airborne actors?
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Re: high angle viewed sprities

Postby Arctangent » Tue Aug 21, 2018 9:12 pm

Pixel Eater wrote:
Arctangent wrote:By adding sprites for "directly above" and "directly below" to this, you'd instead need twenty-four sprites, tripling the workload.
Agreed it would be a lot of work but I don't think you'd need underneath sprites for most things except airborne actors?

Thing bridges and 3D floors that are either transparent or have a mesh texture.
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Re: high angle viewed sprities

Postby Pixel Eater » Tue Aug 21, 2018 9:33 pm

That's a good point, that would look trippy to see :trippy: I think it could be made optional however.
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Re: high angle viewed sprities

Postby keithfishbiscuit » Tue Aug 21, 2018 10:28 pm

I guess i just have to mix in 3d models with sprites and be clever with it...
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Re: high angle viewed sprities

Postby Tormentor667 » Wed Aug 22, 2018 1:14 am

Imagine space shooters ala Wing Commander ;)
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Re: high angle viewed sprities

Postby Rachael » Thu Aug 23, 2018 3:23 pm

You can already use models in software. If you really need full 3D viewing of actors, using models would probably be much better for it.

Also, models give depth where sprites do not. If this feature were done, what would be next? Close-ups and far-aways? Again - this can be handled by models. This is why vector art (which models are) is so popular - it is so much more flexible and scaleable than sprites.
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Re: high angle viewed sprities

Postby Graf Zahl » Thu Aug 23, 2018 3:34 pm

Not to mention the resource overkill factor of having this many sprites...
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Re: high angle viewed sprities

Postby Major Cooke » Thu Aug 23, 2018 4:58 pm

Rachael wrote:Again - this can be handled by models. This is why vector art (which models are) is so popular - it is so much more flexible and scaleable than sprites.


Huh. Interesting... TIL! Sadly the only thing about those is you cannot control different aspects like having eyes turning in certain directions without making many, many 'sprite frames' for those in particular but alas.

Unless the thing in question is purely robotic with no flexing parts like necks that twist the skin, but in that case it still has to be a separate model.
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Re: high angle viewed sprities

Postby Cacodemon345 » Fri Aug 24, 2018 1:47 am

If I remember correctly, you would make a flag that would make the renderer treat its rotation sprites as high-angled/low-angled. Rise Of The Triad did that with its platforms.
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