[Added] Dog Sprite Replacement

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Re: Dog Sprite Replacement

Postby Edward-san » Mon Oct 09, 2017 4:37 am

Nash wrote:
Rachael wrote:In fact, the only thing I really would change is to render them from a more overhead perspective since the dogs aren't supposed to be exactly eye-level with the player. ;)


This is a good suggestion and to be honest, has indeed been bothering me a little bit as I was playing in-game with these new sprites lately.

I might do an update pass and see if moving the camera up a little would make the sprite look better (and also take in any other suggestions other people may have, if they care to write something other than "it's crap lol"). :D


The only problem as a consequence is that if you look at the dog from down upstairs, it would appear like the dog would be a circus entertainer (only the frontal two legs would touch the ground) :mrgreen:

Though this problem could be extended to any sprite with its 'depth' larger than its 'width'.
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Re: Dog Sprite Replacement

Postby Rachael » Mon Oct 09, 2017 5:05 am

That's unavoidable. But it can be mitigated by making the dog bigger, and not letting the camera go "too" high above it during the render.
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Re: Dog Sprite Replacement

Postby Voros » Mon Oct 09, 2017 5:36 am

TBQH the Wolf3D dog sprites look flat and unshaded. I like Nash's GPL dog better for this kind of thing.
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Re: Dog Sprite Replacement

Postby Graf Zahl » Mon Oct 09, 2017 6:19 am

I don't think it's a good idea to render the dog from 'above'. While in some situations it may look better it will definitely amplify the general problems that come with billboarded sprites.
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Re: Dog Sprite Replacement

Postby Ed the Bat » Mon Oct 09, 2017 11:18 am

Perhaps the angle issues could be sidestepped with an md3 of the dogs...?
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Re: Dog Sprite Replacement

Postby Nash » Mon Oct 09, 2017 11:32 am

Ed the Bat wrote:Perhaps the angle issues could be sidestepped with an md3 of the dogs...?


The model is currently a little too low poly to look good in-game... it's good enough for low-res sprite renders (kind of pointless to construct high detail geometry when most of it will be lost during downsampling) but if I were to release this as a game-ready model, it'd require a bit more work to polish it up. I currently have no plans to do the work required to make the model game-ready. :mrgreen:
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Re: Dog Sprite Replacement

Postby Ed the Bat » Mon Oct 09, 2017 11:34 am

Fair enough.
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Re: Dog Sprite Replacement

Postby Kinsie » Mon Oct 09, 2017 11:45 am

Zhs2 wrote:This is venturing somewhere off the topic, but while I think the sprites are fine, the new dog sounds are imo less evocative of "oh no, I'm hurting this poor dog" than the old Wolf3D ones. :(
They're quick edits of Creative Commons/Public Domain recordings from the FreeSound Project. They're not better than the copyrighted MacWolf ones, heavens no, but they're more "passable" then the previous placeholders, which were an up-pitched human voice.

The source audio credits should be given in the PK3. If you can find more fitting sounds and we can verify that they're original recordings with a GPL-friendly license, then sure, I'll spin something up with them.
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Re: Dog Sprite Replacement

Postby Ravick » Thu Oct 12, 2017 2:11 am

First, nice job, Nash! That's a nice set of sprites you've got, IMO.

Second, uh... any chances of you do some idle sprites for it? Things just like the dog sitting, sleeping, eating or so.

:)
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Re: Dog Sprite Replacement

Postby Nash » Thu Oct 12, 2017 5:46 am

Ravick wrote:First, nice job, Nash! That's a nice set of sprites you've got, IMO.

Second, uh... any chances of you do some idle sprites for it? Things just like the dog sitting, sleeping, eating or so.

:)


Thanks!

Sure, I can knock out some idle frames, shouldn't be too hard.
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Re: Dog Sprite Replacement

Postby MartinHowe » Fri Oct 13, 2017 5:42 pm

So basically this is like the green cross medikits in modern official ports of classic doom. Times have changed and things that have been tolerated for ages must sometimes go. Though I will now have to create an autoload as for me this is a bad move, not because Nash's dogs are bad, but because they are not my familiar Doom dogs :p Whether or not it's is a "mistake" by other ports, it has become the de facto standard and it is with sadness that today's legalistic world requires this change.

However I would question the "no relation to the doom engine" comment, otherwise why have WolfSS soldiers in Doom2 in the first place? Indeed I always wondered why iD didn't include the dogs and use them in place of demons on the Doom2 secret levels.
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Re: Dog Sprite Replacement

Postby Rachael » Fri Oct 13, 2017 11:04 pm

As someone who's never personally used the dogs (I had only played with them a few times prior to this coming up, having heard of the MBF support), I've never grown particularly attached to the dogs.

But even if I were - sometimes change is necessary. Yes you can use autoload and get your old doggies back, and that's a supported and sanctioned method. Obviously, we won't do it for you - but there's nothing to stop you from posting your work on the Graphics/Sound patches forum, either. ;)

But as I was saying, times change. The new doggies were needed, Nash delivered. If we had had alternate working sprites for the doggos, this replacement probably would have probably happened sooner.

As for WolfSS in Doom2 - that was something id did, and it had a very narrow and specific use. Throwing the dogs in with them is something that randomly became standard because some other source port did it and had nothing to do with the original author of the games.
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Re: Dog Sprite Replacement

Postby Graf Zahl » Sat Oct 14, 2017 12:52 am

MartinHowe wrote: they are not my familiar Doom dogs



There's no such thing as a Doom dog. Let's be clear: Any port released under the GPL which is using the Wolfenstein sprites is on legally shaky ground. I wouldn't be surprised if some of them took Nash's replacement themselves to rid themselves of this issue.
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Re: Dog Sprite Replacement

Postby Doomkid » Sat Oct 14, 2017 2:05 am

I really like these sprites. It's nice to have an alternative to the Wolf3D dogs even aside from the legalities. Well done!
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Re: Dog Sprite Replacement

Postby Amuscaria » Tue Oct 17, 2017 11:05 pm

Looking very nice. Definitely better detailed than the Wolfenstein Rottweilers.
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