[Closed] The state of the Feature Suggestions forum

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Postby Cptschrodinger » Sun Mar 27, 2005 10:07 pm

Were you paid to say that jim... -_-
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Postby Chris » Sun Mar 27, 2005 10:30 pm

I don't even understand what he said.

Jim wrote:How about letting people vote on bugs? If every post in this forum automatically included a poll "great idea", "good idea", "OK idea", "bad idea", and "terrible idea", maybe the controversial (and sometimes just plain bad or dumb) requests would be voted down.

Vote on bugs? If you mean feature requests, we can.. just setup a poll with the request. Can anonymous guest users answer the poll, though? If they can, it wouldn't be worth it. I'd also be wary of people who'd vote immediately "no", then when the idea evolves into something more practical they couldn't change the vote.

Whatever, I just wish that ZDoom's development were more transparent.

Wouldn't that mean fewer people to help, then?

There are two reasons that every forks ZDoom

I don't even know what this is supposed to mean.

it is difficult to contribute to the project when you cannot see the current state of source code, or even frequent snapshots. Remember, SourceForge.net is a free host, with automatic bug management/feature request areas, web-browseable cvs, and many other things.

Which is exactly why being more transparent/invisible wouldn't be a good thing. Why would you wish for ZDoom development to be more transparent, then turn around and say you wish it was more open and visible? It would have to be one or the other..
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Postby Jim » Sun Mar 27, 2005 10:34 pm

Sniper joe wrote:Were you paid to say that jim... -_-

What the hell are you talking about? The suggestion to use SourceForge? I would be equally happy if he used any of the other similar websites, such as http://savannah.nongnu.org/.
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Postby Jim » Sun Mar 27, 2005 10:55 pm

Chris wrote:I don't even understand what he said.

Jim wrote:How about letting people vote on bugs? If every post in this forum automatically included a poll "great idea", "good idea", "OK idea", "bad idea", and "terrible idea", maybe the controversial (and sometimes just plain bad or dumb) requests would be voted down.

Vote on bugs? If you mean feature requests, we can.. just setup a poll with the request. Can anonymous guest users answer the poll, though? If they can, it wouldn't be worth it. I'd also be wary of people who'd vote immediately "no", then when the idea evolves into something more practical they couldn't change the vote.

I mis-typed. I meant feature requests, although voting is also done more generally for any bugs with many larger projects to let developers know what is bothering users the most. The way that is usually done is that you can only vote that you agree (or want it fixed), with no allowance for voting against bugs or feature requests.
Chris wrote:
Whatever, I just wish that ZDoom's development were more transparent.

Wouldn't that mean fewer people to help, then?

Chris, since you are not a native speaker of English, I understand your confusion somewhat. However, one of the meanings for transparent is
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=transparent"]
4.
a. Easily seen through or detected; obvious: transparent lies.
b. Free from guile; candid or open: transparent sincerity.
[/quote]

[quote="Chris wrote:
There are two reasons that everyone forks ZDoom

I don't even know what this is supposed to mean.

Some example of forks of ZDoom are ZDaemon, Skulltag, CSDoom, etc. In general, a fork is when someone takes a snapshot of the code and modifies it to suit their own tastes without having those changes merged back into the original project.
Chris wrote:
it is difficult to contribute to the project when you cannot see the current state of source code, or even frequent snapshots. Remember, SourceForge.net is a free host, with automatic bug management/feature request areas, web-browseable cvs, and many other things.

Which is exactly why being more transparent/invisible wouldn't be a good thing. Why would you wish for ZDoom development to be more transparent, then turn around and say you wish it was more open and visible? It would have to be one or the other..

See my earlier comment on your misunderstanding.
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Postby Chris » Sun Mar 27, 2005 11:13 pm

Jim wrote:I mis-typed. I meant feature requests, although voting is also done more generally for any bugs with many larger projects to let developers know what is bothering users the most. The way that is usually done is that you can only vote that you agree (or want it fixed), with no allowance for voting against bugs or feature requests.

Ah, I see. Could work still.. setup a poll "Yes, I like it" and "I don't really care". Polls contains total numbers, so you can just simply count the "yes" answers and ignore the "don't care"s.

Chris wrote:Chris, since you are not a native speaker of English, I understand your confusion somewhat.

Actually, I am a native English speaker. However, I took transparent to mean invisible/unseen. Either way, I see what you mean now.
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Postby Jim » Sun Mar 27, 2005 11:25 pm

Chris wrote:
Chris, since you are not a native speaker of English, I understand your confusion somewhat.

Actually, I am a native English speaker. However, I took transparent to mean invisible/unseen. Either way, I see what you mean now.

Oh, I guess it might actually be more of a programmer lingo issue. However, FYI the meaning I used is actually also the usual meaning of transparency when people are refering to a process.
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Postby Bio Hazard » Mon Mar 28, 2005 12:08 am

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Postby Jim » Mon Mar 28, 2005 12:54 am

Bio Hazard wrote:http://zdoom.sourceforge.net

If you looked closer, you would notice that Hirogen2 runs that site on his own, borrowing content from zdoom.org. The software available for download is not even all up-to-date. Lastly, and most importantly (to me), the source code in cvs is simply some outdated code that Hirogen2 uploaded quite awhile ago.
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Postby Graf Zahl » Mon Mar 28, 2005 3:24 am

Jim wrote:Whatever, I just wish that ZDoom's development were more transparent. There are two reasons that every forks ZDoom: (1) it is the highest quality and most feature-filled port, and (2) it is difficult to contribute to the project when you cannot see the current state of source code, or even frequent snapshots.



I agree with the transparency issue. It would have made things with DECORATE certainly easier and faster if I had had access to the code myself. Even some regular progress updates would be appreciated. It's good to know what Randy is doing right now but it would be even better if he told us how far he has come with it so far.

Gladly Randy takes the contributions he can get so so far all I offered has gone in.

Coming back to the thread's topic, I still think we need guidelines. If people had some idea what kind of feature suggestions were acceptable and which were not and if Randy told from time to time that certain features will not be done for this or that reason it would help everybody to sort this out better. And that's not just features with questionable work-to-benefit ratio, something of which there had been enough here lately.
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Postby QBasicer » Mon Mar 28, 2005 6:31 am

CVS!!!

But I think everybody should be heard. It doesn't matter who they are, they just need to be heard.
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Postby David Ferstat » Mon Mar 28, 2005 9:20 am

Jim wrote:How about letting people vote on bugs? If every post in this forum automatically included a poll "great idea", "good idea", "OK idea", "bad idea", and "terrible idea", maybe the controversial (and sometimes just plain bad or dumb) requests would be voted down...

Unfortunately, the popularity of an idea is no guide whatsoever as to its worth, or practicality.

Yes, many people may clamour for auto-updates, or 24-bit colour, or 3-d floors or md2 object support. Their desire for these features in no way changes the difficulty of implementation, however, and is also no reliable indication of how much the features would be used, if they were implemented.
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Postby Bio Hazard » Mon Mar 28, 2005 6:20 pm

Jim wrote:If you looked closer, you would notice that Hirogen2 runs that site on his own, borrowing content from zdoom.org. The software available for download is not even all up-to-date. Lastly, and most importantly (to me), the source code in cvs is simply some outdated code that Hirogen2 uploaded quite awhile ago.

Yea I know. I was just pointing out that it has already been talked about. and you know what randy said? Thats right, nothing. Just like always... Randy seriously needs to speak up more. If he would just voice his oppinion, A lot of the arguing would stop...

Just imagine the ZSteam thread: If randy would just say "No" that would be the end of it! there would be no more reason for graf to keep forcing his oppinion upon everyone and we could all be happy...
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Postby Mannequin » Mon Mar 28, 2005 7:09 pm

LMAO! :lol:

-M.
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Postby Cptschrodinger » Tue Mar 29, 2005 12:04 pm

What if he said yes? O_o
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Postby BouncyTEM » Tue Mar 29, 2005 12:25 pm

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