Sector Ambient Sounds (possible SNDSEQ method)

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Sector Ambient Sounds (possible SNDSEQ method)

Postby XLightningStormL » Sun May 06, 2018 9:23 am

One of the biggest issues with Ambient Sounds in G/Q/ZDoom is that they ARE NOT flexible position-wise, most notably they can be heard in areas they are not intended to play in (thus making map editors vastly redesign levels to accommodate that or even outright remove the feature) and play the sound relative to their position (i.e they are quieter when the player is facing away from them) another issue is that having multiple sound actors in a map, especially a large one could cause performance issues) the addition could even ease map development somewhat, time spent in-and-out testing, and fiddling around with actor options would be decreased to changing the tab to an ambient sound, then testing, and ta-da, done and such a feature would help sooth these issues.

What I suggest to accommodate this is to add "Sector Ambient Sounds" ones that only play when the player (or even A player is in the defined Sector) and even Adding a new sector edit section that outright adds an "Sector Ambience" that reads from all the $Ambient defined soundsets.

Alternatively would be the suggested SNDSEQ method, which is extending Sound Sequences by adding a new Ambient action (which is constantly playing the loop which is only heard in the sector that has an ambient defined).
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Re: Sector Ambient Sounds (possible SNDSEQ method)

Postby Gez » Sun May 06, 2018 10:54 am

How about adding ambient sounds that are tied to sound environments? I think it'd be more manageable that tying to sectors (given how areas in ZDoom maps are generally made of many sectors), and more logical as well. They could be implemented in SNDINFO by a new type, "environment" (in addition to the existing types of global, point, and surround).
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Re: Sector Ambient Sounds (possible SNDSEQ method)

Postby Chris » Sun May 06, 2018 8:21 pm

Some kind of option for sound occlusion would be nice too (reduce the sound's direct and send/reverb volumes depending on whether the sound has line-of-sight to the listener and environment respectively, using the thickness and material of any blocking walls). That way, when you leave the room the ambient (or any other so-enabled) sound will be realistically blocked by walls.
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Re: Sector Ambient Sounds (possible SNDSEQ method)

Postby Caligari87 » Sun May 06, 2018 8:46 pm

Any dynamic processing related to the thickness/material of blocking walls is gonna be a [No] I imagine, at least until someone implements some kind of realistic sound propagation/reflection system and the ability to define materials either via textures or lines or whatever.

An interim possibility would be defining an "occluded" custom reverb environment that could be attached to sound definitions, and would be automatically applied to those sounds if the player is out of LOS of the sound source. I imagine one potential roadblock is that reverbs are just per-player, not per-player-per-sound.

8-)
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Re: Sector Ambient Sounds (possible SNDSEQ method)

Postby Graf Zahl » Mon May 07, 2018 2:08 am

It's hard to make sounds be affected by something that does not even exist. As annoying as it may be to some modders, If you want advanced sound design, you will need an engine that provides the needed information in its maps.
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Re: Sector Ambient Sounds (possible SNDSEQ method)

Postby Apeirogon » Mon May 07, 2018 1:50 pm

XLightningStormL wrote: play the sound relative to their position (i.e they are quieter when the player is facing away from them)

But sound IRL dont work like this...

Anyway, you can check in what sector player is currently located, and depending of this spawn/destroy some dummy sound actor/s.
Or create sector/s without "sound sequence" options, around sector with "sound sequence" options.

And if you really cant live without realistic sound propagation, it better suggest new a_playsound property for actor, in what circular/spherical sector sound must be heared, as in picture.
HRODA6A4.png

Like
Code: Select allExpand view
a_playsound(sound name, sound slot, volume, loop, flags, local, double "angle where it must be heared" = 0/*which means inside all radius*/)


This make can make illusion of thick/thin walls without invention of a bicycle, which must guess how thick is this particular wall, and what sound it must allow to pass through it.
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Re: Sector Ambient Sounds (possible SNDSEQ method)

Postby XLightningStormL » Sun Aug 05, 2018 7:25 pm

An alternative suggestion I will pitch is this:
Add an option to make the "radius" square, or at least add another Custom Ambient Actor that has a square "radius", and by extension add an argument to ignore rollover (i.e have the ambience play at full sound regardless of distance inside the radius)

These would be (theoretically) the code cheapest options (Layman) whilst expanding the function, to the benefit of modders, and developers.
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Re: Sector Ambient Sounds (possible SNDSEQ method)

Postby Gorman Frebmane » Wed Aug 15, 2018 3:26 am

Id suggest making a system similar to what goldsource or source engine use for ambient sounds not tied to objects, basically make a actor that when you walk through it changes the ambient noise dynamically as in it fades out the previous ambient noise and fades in the ambient noise that is corresponding to the area you enter.
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Re: Sector Ambient Sounds (possible SNDSEQ method)

Postby Graf Zahl » Wed Aug 15, 2018 3:59 am

Gorman Frebmane wrote:Id suggest making a system similar to what goldsource or source engine use for ambient sounds not tied to objects, basically make a actor that when you walk through it changes the ambient noise dynamically as in it fades out the previous ambient noise and fades in the ambient noise that is corresponding to the area you enter.


Quoting myself:

It's hard to make sounds be affected by something that does not even exist.


The big problem here is that the Doom engine has no concepts of these things whatsoever. It'd have to be implemented from top to bottom on every level and then be properly supported by the map format. Sure it would be nice to have better sound propagation but right now there's simply no means to handle that.

The one thing I consider feasible is doing it similarly to dynamic lights: Each time a sound-making object moves it has to be linked into a sound map, but to ensure proper attenuation when sound "moves" around corners a lot more needs to be added, to avoid sudden dropoffs when changing areas. I'm not a sound designer and simply cannot do this properly.
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Re: Sector Ambient Sounds (possible SNDSEQ method)

Postby Gorman Frebmane » Wed Aug 15, 2018 4:11 am

I guess the only way to do it would be to make a script that changes the ambient sound (music) to another ambient sound which means i may have to create some less detailed spaces between areas so that its not a mess when ambient sounds change.
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