Default Keybindings Presets

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Re: Default Keybindings Presets

Postby drfrag » Mon May 18, 2020 4:16 am

So are they working now in Raze? I want to try to add the presets myself, but with esdf as well. Which name do you prefer for it? altbinds? About leftbinds i'd rather go with IJKL, what happens if there's no keypad?
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Re: Default Keybindings Presets

Postby Graf Zahl » Mon May 18, 2020 5:07 am

Leftbind shoud use the cursor and key pad. Even laptops have a cursor pad at the bottom right - IJKL is a grossly inconvenient layout for left handed people.
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Re: Default Keybindings Presets

Postby Rachael » Mon May 18, 2020 5:13 am

Hell if you need quick and easy access to additional functions in addition to standard movement, the keypad is great for that, as well, but only for keyboards that have one obviously. If they don't, then the arrow keys are so close to other keys that those keys can be bound to something too, however, that would have to be left to the end user because every laptop keyboard is vastly different from the other.

At any rate, I agree with Graf about IJKL. That seems like a bit of an out-of-the-blue keybind set to me.
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Re: Default Keybindings Presets

Postby drfrag » Mon May 18, 2020 5:58 am

Someone mentioned IJKL and i read it was popular. I know there are many laptops without keypad, those models with 14" and 11.6" screens but no big deal i guess.
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Re: Default Keybindings Presets

Postby Enjay » Mon May 18, 2020 7:28 am

As a left-handed person, I can see why ijkl might be popular. If you are using the mouse with your left hand, the ijkl keys might be positioned quite naturally for your right.

Presets are rarely 100% correct for me. So, with a preset, I have to hunt for the ones that I need to change whereas if I'm setting things up for myself, I know that I need to check everything.

In a program like GZDoom where I know all the bindings, I can set my interface up in a matter of seconds and because I use the same setup for all first person games wherever possible, it doesn't take me much longer even in a game that I have never used before. It's only the unusual game-specific functions that throw me and until I have played, I don't really know how I want them set any way. So, initially, any old default (or even unbound) will do for them.

So personally, I'm not really sure why so many people find presets that useful. But, yeah, some people like them so, fair enough I guess.
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Re: Default Keybindings Presets

Postby drfrag » Mon May 18, 2020 4:53 pm

Seems actually some people use it but the equivalent preset to WASD would be "OKL;" and i've found the character at the right of 'L' cannot be bound from defbinds and i don't know why. This would be to change to that one in LZDoom. For some reason "; +moveright" doesn't work even with the US keyboard, when i bind it ingame it works and shows ';' with both US and ES layouts.
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Re: Default Keybindings Presets

Postby SanyaWaffles » Mon May 18, 2020 6:06 pm

; is the designation for a comment in an INI file. That might have something to do with it.
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Re: Default Keybindings Presets

Postby Enjay » Mon May 18, 2020 6:09 pm

I would imagine that some people use IJKL simply because there will be a few games that can't easily bind ";". IJKL will all be "safe bets" as far as binding is concerned.
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Re: Default Keybindings Presets

Postby Gez » Tue May 19, 2020 1:33 am

Personally I use the numpad and I'm right-handed. But it's a small USB numpad.

Basically it's a question of forearm posture. I've found out that I'm the most comfortable like this: <_>, with the brackets representing the arms. Using the main keyboard in that posture, what would come naturally for gaming would be something like REDF (R forward, D backward, E left, F right). Being |_| quickly gives me wrist pains. With a small numpad I can give it whatever angle and use 8456 for movement. (5 for backward. Not 2.)
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Re: Default Keybindings Presets

Postby drfrag » Tue May 19, 2020 3:46 am

SanyaWaffles wrote:; is the designation for a comment in an INI file.

It's not an ini but defbinds, in the ini comments start with # here they start with //. I think it's a bug/limitation of the parser, ';' is used for end of line and it's optional and the parser should eat trailing spaces. Clearly there are more characters before '\n' so ';' should not end the line in that case. Seems just ';' ends the line. Soit's better to just use the keypad, i don't think it's worth complicating the parser. This is just my guess i haven't actually looked at the code.
Edit: actually i've just seen that ';' is used for comments as well so it was not that complicated.
Gez wrote:and use 8456 for movement. (5 for backward. Not 2.)

That looks good.
Last edited by drfrag on Tue May 19, 2020 5:50 am, edited 6 times in total.
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Re: Default Keybindings Presets

Postby Enjay » Tue May 19, 2020 4:02 am

The numpad is a good option for gaming because it has a nice central set of buttons that can be bound to movement and those are surrounded by a bunch of conveniently close buttons that can be bound to other often-needed actions. I tend to use the numpad for the Thief games. However, in my experience, many games are very bad at detecting the numpad correctly and so, as a default, I avoid using it.
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Re: Default Keybindings Presets

Postby drfrag » Tue May 19, 2020 4:27 am

And precisely the keypad configuration clashes with the fly controls and those are common right now, besides here NumLock doesn't work ingame so i can't get Home, PgUp or PgDown anyway (may be it's a win10 thing). And then there are the keyboards without keypad. IMHO "OKL;" is fine and with IJKL you can accidentally hit the touchpad so that's not good.
Now where's that code in the parser? :? Or i could remove those from common and use the keypad but that would complicate things for Heretic and Hexen.
Edit: it's a limitation of the parser (FScanner), same happens with ':' and '}' and there's no workaround.
Edit2: there is, i've used #39 it works now.
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Re: Default Keybindings Presets

Postby Daniel » Tue May 19, 2020 9:31 am

Hello!

Just want to share the default bindings I've been using with XBOX/XInput controllers and a small GPD Win (detected as DINPUT), if anyone may find it useful:

// GPD Win / DInput Player (1)
joy1 +use
joy2 invuse
joy3 +crouch
joy4 +jump
joy5 weapnext
joy6 invnext
joy7 +attack
joy8 +altattack
POV1Up +forward
POV1Down +back
POV1Left +left
POV1Right +right

// Xbox 360 / PS2 / XInput Player 1
pad_a +crouch
pad_b invuse
pad_x +jump
pad_y +use
mwheelup weapprev
mwheeldown weapnext
mwheelright invnext
mwheelleft invprev
pad_start togglemap
pad_back menu_main
lthumb centerview
lshoulder +attack
rshoulder +altattack
ltrigger weapnext
rtrigger invnext
mapbind dpadup +am_panup
mapbind dpaddown +am_pandown
mapbind dpadleft +am_panleft
mapbind dpadright +am_panright
mapbind ltrigger +am_zoomin
mapbind rtrigger +am_zoomout
mapbind lthumb am_togglefollow

// Xbox 360 / PS2 / XInput Player 2 (for LZDoom as up to date)
pad2_a +crouch
pad2_b invuse
pad2_x +jump
pad2_y +use
mwheel2up weapprev
mwheel2down weapnext
mwheel2right invnext
mwheel2left invprev
pad2_start togglemap
lthumb2 centerview
lshoulder2 +attack
rshoulder2 +altattack
ltrigger2 weapnext
rtrigger2 invnext
mapbind dpad2up +am_panup
mapbind dpad2down +am_pandown
mapbind dpad2left +am_panleft
mapbind dpad2right +am_panright
mapbind ltrigger2 +am_zoomin
mapbind rtrigger2 +am_zoomout
mapbind lthumb2 am_togglefollow

// Xbox 360 / PS2 / XInput Player 3 (for LZDoom as up to date)
pad3_a +crouch
pad3_b invuse
pad3_x +jump
pad3_y +use
mwheel3up weapprev
mwheel3down weapnext
mwheel3right invnext
mwheel3left invprev
pad3_start togglemap
lthumb3 centerview
lshoulder3 +attack
rshoulder3 +altattack
ltrigger3 weapnext
rtrigger3 invnext
mapbind dpad3up +am_panup
mapbind dpad3down +am_pandown
mapbind dpad3left +am_panleft
mapbind dpad3right +am_panright
mapbind ltrigger3 +am_zoomin
mapbind rtrigger3 +am_zoomout
mapbind lthumb3 am_togglefollow

// Xbox 360 / PS2 / XInput Player 4 (for LZDoom as up to date)
pad4_a +crouch
pad4_b invuse
pad4_x +jump
pad4_y +use
mwheel4up weapprev
mwheel4down weapnext
mwheel4right invnext
mwheel4left invprev
pad4_start togglemap
lthumb4 centerview
lshoulder4 +attack
rshoulder4 +altattack
ltrigger4 weapnext
rtrigger4 invnext
mapbind dpad4up +am_panup
mapbind dpad4down +am_pandown
mapbind dpad4left +am_panleft
mapbind dpad4right +am_panright
mapbind ltrigger4 +am_zoomin
mapbind rtrigger4 +am_zoomout
mapbind lthumb4 am_togglefollow


Thanks!
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Re: Default Keybindings Presets

Postby Graf Zahl » Tue May 19, 2020 1:06 pm

IMO IJKL is perfectly useless unless you want to primarily target laptops. The key are right in the middle of a full keyboard and perfectly useless for convenient control.
Why do you think WASD is so popular? It's right at the side of the keyboard where it won't get in the way. Same for the number pad on the other side.

But this entire discussion is rather pointless. Like Enjay said, most people will reconfigure their keys anyway because everybody has slightly different playing styles.
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Re: Default Keybindings Presets

Postby drfrag » Tue May 19, 2020 2:21 pm

I don't think it's pointless i want to provide a minimal usable out of the box configuration. I've been reading more on the matter and seems the most common setup for left-handed people is using WASD and then others, IJKL is actually used but probably someone proposed it just becouse you know it has to be all letters for some reason. OKL; is good i don't think it's a real problem not being at the side, the distance to the space bar is the same. 8456 on the keypad is even better if there's a keypad and numlock is on but clashes with the existing flight keys and seems now those only work on full keyboards with those six separate keys. So then i don't know which keys to use for flying. :?
This is my current left config:
Code: Select allExpand view
o +forward
l +back
k +moveleft
#39 +moveright ;
i +jump
, crouch
mouse2 +altattack
mouse3 +speed

And for Strife:
Code: Select allExpand view
w "showpop 1"
s "showpop 2"
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