Using models instead of sprites for weapons?

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Using models instead of sprites for weapons?

Postby hardcore_gamer » Tue May 08, 2018 6:26 pm

I have (sort of) figured out how to make new weapons, but only with sprites. How does the process of creating and animating 3D weapons differ from using sprites?
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Re: Using models instead of sprites for weapons?

Postby ramon.dexter » Wed May 09, 2018 10:23 am

Well, sprite is basically an image. So, the weapon is an set, animation, of images.

The model, is ... a model. 3D defined object. Also, quake-type model containers allows to define an animation.

So, when you're making sprite weapon, you're drawing pictures. Many pictures of one thing to make it fluid and alive.

When you're making the wepaon model, you make one model and then animate it. I've never done that, so I cannot describe to you the steps that has to be made, but it's quite different process from spritemaking.

Also, you can have not only model weapon, but also a voxel weapon.
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Re: Using models instead of sprites for weapons?

Postby hardcore_gamer » Wed May 09, 2018 12:13 pm

ramon.dexter wrote:Well, sprite is basically an image. So, the weapon is an set, animation, of images.

The model, is ... a model. 3D defined object. Also, quake-type model containers allows to define an animation.

So, when you're making sprite weapon, you're drawing pictures. Many pictures of one thing to make it fluid and alive.

When you're making the wepaon model, you make one model and then animate it. I've never done that, so I cannot describe to you the steps that has to be made, but it's quite different process from spritemaking.

Also, you can have not only model weapon, but also a voxel weapon.


Do you know about any recent 3D weapon somebody made so that I can download it and look at the files?
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Re: Using models instead of sprites for weapons?

Postby phantombeta » Wed May 09, 2018 11:08 pm

Zanieon's Hunter's Moon is done entirely with models. All monsters and weapons are 3D models.
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Re: Using models instead of sprites for weapons?

Postby HAL9000 » Thu May 10, 2018 8:03 am

In the past I used Models to generate Sprite sheets.
Now I mostly use only models for weapons, items, enemies, map parts, decor, etc....

Model to sprite example:
(If you know how to do it, you can get really good sprites from models.)
This sprite was created from model in C4D , colors were tweaked in PS
Spoiler:
Last edited by HAL9000 on Thu May 10, 2018 6:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Using models instead of sprites for weapons?

Postby R4L » Thu May 10, 2018 1:57 pm

Hoooo boy. Where to begin?

It's a lot of work. First, you need your model in Blender scaled correctly, facing the correct way. Second, you'll need to animate the model in your modeling program too. In Blender, this means defining key frames. Then you'll need to define the model and it's frames in MODELDEF. Then it's a matter of using DECORATE or ZScript to make a weapon and use the frame lump you defined for your model.

EDIT: here's some Metroid Prime arm cannon models I shamelessly stole and imported into Metroid Dreadnought:

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Re: Using models instead of sprites for weapons?

Postby hardcore_gamer » Thu May 10, 2018 4:26 pm

Thanks I might look into that. I am using Modo not blender don't know if this makes any difference.
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Re: Using models instead of sprites for weapons?

Postby HAL9000 » Thu May 10, 2018 6:07 pm

Modo is far better choice than Blender (Blender is very popular because it's free),
But you will face a huge problem with Modo ---> MD3 Export.
You can kinda do it, but you will have to use other 3rd party tools to achieve it.

I use Cinema4D and I face the same problem. There is no (proper working) Md3 exporter
So I have to use OBJ Sequence as alternative.

My Workflow, It's several more minutes of extra work, but I don't mind it.
Code: Select allExpand view
Modo/C4D->Noesis->Md3Tool->Gzdoom
Modo/C4D Animation ---> Obj Sequence (frames) ---> Noesis Batch OBJ sequence Files to MD3 Sequence Files ---> Q3Model Tool To Merge Sequence into singe MD3 File ---> GZDOOM


Working Like a Charm (Quick Gif Preview, not the actual anim speed) :
Spoiler:

And thanks to the new PBR shader Weapon Models look amazing under Dynamic Light
Spoiler:




If anyone wants custom made C4D exporter script for my workflow, PM me
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Re: Using models instead of sprites for weapons?

Postby hardcore_gamer » Fri May 11, 2018 7:29 am

HAL9000 wrote:Modo is far better choice than Blender (Blender is very popular because it's free),
But you will face a huge problem with Modo ---> MD3 Export.
You can kinda do it, but you will have to use other 3rd party tools to achieve it.

I use Cinema4D and I face the same problem. There is no (proper working) Md3 exporter
So I have to use OBJ Sequence as alternative.

My Workflow, It's several more minutes of extra work, but I don't mind it.
Code: Select allExpand view
Modo/C4D->Noesis->Md3Tool->Gzdoom
Modo/C4D Animation ---> Obj Sequence (frames) ---> Noesis Batch OBJ sequence Files to MD3 Sequence Files ---> Q3Model Tool To Merge Sequence into singe MD3 File ---> GZDOOM



I am aware Modo can't safe as MD3 but so far I got around this by simply saving as obj and then importing the file into Misfit3D and then re-save it as md3. But then again so far I have only done this for static models with no animations. Is this not possible to do for animated models? I am also not familiar with those other programs you mentioned like Noesis or the "Md3Tool".
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Re: Using models instead of sprites for weapons?

Postby HAL9000 » Fri May 11, 2018 8:23 am

I described it in my workflow above
You need obj sequence export plugin for modo,

I have found one for you here:
https://community.foundry.com/forum/pos ... 2/download
- Modo wil export your animations as frames frame1.obj , frame2.obj...frame99.obj etc
Important! All frames need to have the same poly/face count!,
Also, dont forget to check the model normals and phong/curvature,
and be sure to create model with md3 file format specs in mind.
You can have multiple texture and model groups though, gzdoom supports it.

- You will need Noesis to batch convert all obj frames to md3 frames
http://richwhitehouse.com/index.php?con ... sv4296.zip
(Or you can convert frame by frame obj to md3 in any converter you use, but noesis is one click convert for all frames)

- You will need Q3Model tool to merge all md3 frames into single "compressed" MD3 animation
http://www.moddb.com/games/quake-iii-ar ... -tool-v160

- And you are done, next step is creating modeldef and actor for gzdoom

Note! , this workflow works for any 3DModelling software that does not support direct md3 export, but can export OBJ as frames/sequence
Easy! Cheers!
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Re: Using models instead of sprites for weapons?

Postby Kappes Buur » Fri May 11, 2018 11:51 am

hardcore_gamer wrote:I have (sort of) figured out how to make new weapons, but only with sprites. How does the process of creating and animating 3D weapons differ from using sprites?


The best example, I find, is Enjay's Gene-Tech.
Zoo.wad, which is included, is a collection of all 3D actors used in Gene-Tech. Play it to see how the actors move and behave.
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Re: Using models instead of sprites for weapons?

Postby hardcore_gamer » Fri May 11, 2018 5:33 pm

Thanks again for your replies. I will be sure to check those things out!
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Re: Using models instead of sprites for weapons?

Postby hardcore_gamer » Wed May 30, 2018 3:03 pm

Sorry for the late bump but how do I use the modo export pluggin? I downloaded the file but where am I suppose to put it/use it?
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Re: Using models instead of sprites for weapons?

Postby R4L » Fri Jun 01, 2018 8:46 am

hardcore_gamer wrote:Sorry for the late bump but how do I use the modo export pluggin? I downloaded the file but where am I suppose to put it/use it?


5 minutes on Google lol:

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Re: Using models instead of sprites for weapons?

Postby hardcore_gamer » Fri Jun 01, 2018 12:09 pm

Thanks I'm not sure why I wasn't able to find this sooner. But the script doesn't seem to work.

https://i.imgur.com/b3N4Zx5.png

At first I thought it might be because I did not save the model as a obj first so I tried doing that but I just got a similar error anyway. Is the script broken or am I missing some vital step?

EDIT: Never mind I found some tuts from the guy who made the script and I understand this now. Thanks again for your help.
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