Win11 support

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Re: Win11 support

Postby Graf Zahl » Tue Jun 29, 2021 3:35 am

Cacodemon345 wrote:I actually don't care that much about my desktop computer not meeting Windows 11 system requirements because I will be upgrading it anyway in next year since the AMD GPU in it is going to be the next one in the chopping block since they nuked pre-Polaris support.



You are forgetting something here: The CPU cutoff specs will massively lower the value of such old systems and make it harder to sell them on the second hand market.
I guess my ultimate solution will be to install some Linux on it once I have a new one running on Windows 11.
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Re: Win11 support

Postby Gez » Tue Jun 29, 2021 3:52 am

The thing is that honestly the Windows versions after 7 never made me want to upgrade. Yeah, sure, driver support, security, yadda yadda, I know the reasons why one should upgrade anyway.

But in terms of features, in terms of UI, in terms of user experience, I feel that Win 8 and Win 10 and now Win 11 are more like downgrades than like upgrades. They just keep changing stuff that didn't need changing, while making everything uglier as well as more patronizing.
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Re: Win11 support

Postby sinisterseed » Tue Jun 29, 2021 3:55 am

Graf Zahl wrote:
Cacodemon345 wrote:I actually don't care that much about my desktop computer not meeting Windows 11 system requirements because I will be upgrading it anyway in next year since the AMD GPU in it is going to be the next one in the chopping block since they nuked pre-Polaris support.

You are forgetting something here: The CPU cutoff specs will massively lower the value of such old systems and make it harder to sell them on the second hand market.
I guess my ultimate solution will be to install some Linux on it once I have a new one running on Windows 11.

Planned obsolescence basically.

All pre-7th Gen hardware will thus be rendered almost entirely useless as the only thing you could do on it afterwards is installing Linux, or disconnect it from the internet permanently and keep it for other things instead. Imagine retro gaming on such hardware, that would be hilarious.

Gez wrote:The thing is that honestly the Windows versions after 7 never made me want to upgrade. Yeah, sure, driver support, security, yadda yadda, I know the reasons why one should upgrade anyway.

But in terms of features, in terms of UI, in terms of user experience, I feel that Win 8 and Win 10 and now Win 11 are more like downgrades than like upgrades. They just keep changing stuff that didn't need changing, while making everything uglier as well as more patronizing.

Can't relate honestly.

If anything I feel like people give 7 and Vista too much credit. That design was surely wonderful for its time, but Glass is so mid-2000s at this point. It simply feels old and so does the rest of the UI. But humans are creatures of habit after all, and thus resistant to change. I personally would never go back to Aero at this point. It belongs to a bygone era as far as I'm concerned.

Nothing to say about 8 and 8.1 though, that was mainly designed for touch screen devices and it showed at every step. It never felt right for a traditional desktop setup with mouse and keyboard, plus no Start Menu at all.

BTW Graf since you love Classic Shell so much, consider moving to Open Shell instead as Classic has ceased development for some time and is unsupported. Open Shell is now its continuation.
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Re: Win11 support

Postby Graf Zahl » Tue Jun 29, 2021 4:04 am

But people won't retire these computers - and they won't install Linux on them. What they will do is continue to use them past the expiration date. The entire situation is very different from 10 years ago. Back then a 5 year old system wasn't even remotely capable of adequate performance anymore. These days, a 10 year old system not equipped with an entry level CPU is still as fast as a good modern mid range system, so from a technical perspective there's no need to retire them unless they finally break.

This will be a repeat of the XP situation, only 10 times worse. With XP it was mainly unwillingness to upgrade - now it is inability to upgrade.

If you ask me, this is something an OS maker needs to consider.
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Re: Win11 support

Postby sinisterseed » Tue Jun 29, 2021 4:35 am

Graf Zahl wrote:But people won't retire these computers - and they won't install Linux on them. What they will do is continue to use them past the expiration date. The entire situation is very different from 10 years ago. Back then a 5 year old system wasn't even remotely capable of adequate performance anymore. These days, a 10 year old system not equipped with an entry level CPU is still as fast as a good modern mid range system, so from a technical perspective there's no need to retire them unless they finally break.

This will be a repeat of the XP situation, only 10 times worse. With XP it was mainly unwillingness to upgrade - now it is inability to upgrade.

If you ask me, this is something an OS maker needs to consider.

Which was entirely my point for the last two pages :v .

And again, don't forget the massive upgrading campaign they forced with W10. They got all those people on it and locked them there good, since realistically speaking, not even half of them will upgrade their hardware in the next four years considering how things are going these days.

I cannot wait to see what MS does about this when 2025 comes and they see some 70% of users are *still* on W10 21H2, although I expect they will just extend the support a time or two like they did with XP and especially 7 before it. If they don't, the situation after 2025 will be several orders of magnitude worse than both 7 *and* XP. WannaCry will be nothing in comparison, not even dirt under one's nail.
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Re: Win11 support

Postby Enjay » Tue Jun 29, 2021 4:38 am

Gez wrote:But in terms of features, in terms of UI, in terms of user experience, I feel that Win 8 and Win 10 and now Win 11 are more like downgrades than like upgrades. They just keep changing stuff that didn't need changing, while making everything uglier as well as more patronizing.

I'd even go back before that. From the perspective of a person who sets up a single-user computer, who wants folders where they say they are and who doesn't need his hand held by the OS, or large "baby's first computer" brightly coloured icons, XP's interface pretty much hit the sweet spot for me (and even it had too many virtual folders instead of actually putting stuff where it appeared to be). XP with the Zune theme installed was my jam. :lol:
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Re: Win11 support

Postby Cacodemon345 » Tue Jun 29, 2021 4:39 am

Insider Feedback Hub is reportedly being spammed with requests to remove TPM 2.0 hard floor requirement. People are pissed.
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Re: Win11 support

Postby Rachael » Tue Jun 29, 2021 4:53 am

Cacodemon345 wrote:Insider Feedback Hub is reportedly being spammed with requests to remove TPM 2.0 hard floor requirement. People are pissed.

That means there are many people who actually do want Windows 11. It would be stupid of Microsoft to waste this golden opportunity with such a silly requirement.

Good news is though - just as predicted - they're considering backpedaling on it.

https://www.digitaltrends.com/computing ... quirement/
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Re: Win11 support

Postby Graf Zahl » Tue Jun 29, 2021 5:45 am

People do want Windows 11, after all it finally does away with all the garbage that made Windows 8 the most hated UI in Windows history.
And considering that it's only the CPU and TPM 2.0 which throws so many systems under the bus it makes really no sense to have such stringent requirements here. Everything else is a walk in the park for nearly everything that got manufactured in the last 10 years that didn't go cheap on critical components.
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Re: Win11 support

Postby Apeirogon » Tue Jun 29, 2021 11:04 am

Im late for this, but I have read what TPM is from wikipedia, the most trusted and reliable source of information, and...can someone explain to me, using plain words, what does it do?
Because from what I understood from wikipedia,for me it looks like a malicious hardware thing, in most usage cases, disguised under "wow so much PROTEKSHON, CALL NOW (4.99 per minute)".
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Re: Win11 support

Postby Graf Zahl » Tue Jun 29, 2021 11:13 am

It's a secure storage for encryption keys etc. so that an attacker getting into your system has a harder time stealing those keys. This is particularly important for enabling things like Secure Boot which is supposed to protect you from bootloader malware.
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Re: Win11 support

Postby dpJudas » Tue Jun 29, 2021 11:29 am

Microsoft just updated the Office suite to use the new Windows 11 theme: https://insider.office.com/en-us/blog/visual-refresh-of-office-apps-for-windows

Seems to be something somewhere in between Windows 7 and Windows 10. Personally I think the screenshots are an improvement over what we have now. The Windows 8/10/Surface theme has been one of the fugliest themes on the planet. May the horror finally end!
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Re: Win11 support

Postby Cacodemon345 » Tue Jun 29, 2021 12:01 pm

This was the response that got posted to one of the most upvoted TPM removal suggestions, which supposedly explains the TPM 2.0 requirement for Windows 11: https://www.microsoft.com/security/blog ... the-cloud/

There are already conspiracy theories spreading around on the web about the only supported CPUs for Windows 11 being ones with a TPM 2.0 NSA backdoor, oh god.
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Re: Win11 support

Postby Graf Zahl » Tue Jun 29, 2021 12:21 pm

Cacodemon345 wrote:There are already conspiracy theories spreading around on the web about the only supported CPUs for Windows 11 being ones with a TPM 2.0 NSA backdoor, oh god.


Did you really expect anything less from that degenerated part of Humanity?
But ultimately this is something Microsoft needlessly brought upon themselves.
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Re: Win11 support

Postby Apeirogon » Tue Jun 29, 2021 12:22 pm

Graf Zahl wrote:It's a secure storage for encryption keys etc. so that an attacker getting into your system has a harder time stealing those keys. This is particularly important for enabling things like Secure Boot which is supposed to protect you from bootloader malware.

So if only store/manages keys, without forcing you, as a user, to encrypt everything you have?!
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