Your opinion on 3D models in classic Doom

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Your opinion on 3D models in classic Doom

Postby Artman2004 » Sun Jul 19, 2020 8:16 pm

What do you think about mods that add 3D models into Doom/GZDoom?
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Re: Your opinion on 3D models in classic Doom

Postby Deybar_TECH » Mon Jul 20, 2020 2:29 am

I love 3D models. :)
and I would like more users to use them.
Only Gzdoom allowed me to easily
add codes and 3D models.
The best thing is that GZdoom
recognizes the format (.Obj)
that is more precise than the old MD3.


ever tried to use the famous (unity)
but nothing went right and
I hope I never have to re-install it.
I am left with the wonderful GZDóom.
I just hope that the developers will
someday expand the capabilities of 3D models.
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Re: Your opinion on 3D models in classic Doom

Postby sinisterseed » Mon Jul 20, 2020 4:14 am

Some are good, some are bad. I only ever use them if they come with the mod, and never as replacement for vanilla sprites, those are hideous.
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Re: Your opinion on 3D models in classic Doom

Postby Graf Zahl » Mon Jul 20, 2020 4:21 am

Most are bad, the only model heavy mods I enjoyed were TCs which borrowed models from other commercial games.
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Re: Your opinion on 3D models in classic Doom

Postby kodi » Mon Jul 20, 2020 4:35 am

Great in theory, but most of the actual model interpretations of the classic monsters that people have made are a bit.. aesthetically lacking.
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Re: Your opinion on 3D models in classic Doom

Postby Kinsie » Mon Jul 20, 2020 4:54 am

Artman2004 wrote:What do you think about mods that add 3D models into Doom/GZDoom?
Why are you asking us without telling us your opinion?
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Re: Your opinion on 3D models in classic Doom

Postby leileilol » Mon Jul 20, 2020 5:27 pm

Not worth it unless:

- Normals are recognized and calculated upon to give proper shading (even a simple fixed-towards-view 'specular' calc would help a lot), otherwise they'll look flatter than the original sprites.
- The models are really REALLY well done (and i don't mean "quality" from having some higher amount of polys) and optimized. (Don't rip off YPOD's junk.)
- The models look faithful enough, like the clay models or the toys photosourced from with no strange "creative liberties".
- Don't animate like a blobby sliding nightmare. Doom actor code interpolated and applied to 3d models with their lack of angles, animation capabilities, etc. all serve to make a less believable world and are just odd and uncanny. The original Quake avoided some of this problem by having frame macros with well animated walk/run cycles that vary their step distance, etc.. and doing this to Doom would mean a different gameplay experience at that point.

"3-D!!!!!!!!!!" Doom's had a hard time hitting all 4 in the past 20 years.
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Re: Your opinion on 3D models in classic Doom

Postby MFG38 » Tue Jul 21, 2020 6:33 am

Original 3D models in a map/mod, like weapons, props etc.? Cool.

3D model interpretations of the original sprites? Mostly fucking ugly.
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Re: Your opinion on 3D models in classic Doom

Postby CeeJay » Tue Jul 21, 2020 11:52 am

3D models in DOOM? Unless it is more of a new game than a mod for DOOM I'd say noway, nohow. It just don't belong. That is my personal opinion though, I am probably in a minority. I have seen tons of mods pop up over the years mixing 3D models together with traditional 2.5D sprites. It just ain't right. Either go all the way or stick with one or the other.
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Re: Your opinion on 3D models in classic Doom

Postby Matt » Tue Jul 21, 2020 12:25 pm

Models can be made not to interpolate, right? That might help with the uncanny slippy-slidey effect.
(I don't know because I never use them - which probably answers the OP question)
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Re: Your opinion on 3D models in classic Doom

Postby Redneckerz » Tue Jul 21, 2020 1:53 pm

Early ports used this as a feature, and they looked bad. Nowadays, most models still do not look good.

However, 3D models helped ports gain support for standard formats that are present in other id games (MD2, MD3, and so on).

For custom games, 3D models could work. Not so much for Doom, i feel. Unless you get an exact 3D representation of the original. The voxel project over at DW does a good job at that, but those aren't models.
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Re: Your opinion on 3D models in classic Doom

Postby NotDoom » Tue Jul 21, 2020 5:55 pm

Kinsie wrote:
Artman2004 wrote:What do you think about mods that add 3D models into Doom/GZDoom?
Why are you asking us without telling us your opinion?


Weird question. It's like asking "what do you think of doom with 32-bits color depth?"

Doom with 3D models is strange because the game is a top down game. Everything lies on a XY plane. You can't jump over stuff or pass under things. The models themselves are bad looking.



this thing really looks as if it's been made by someone learning to model. To add to leileilol, 3D models require proper lighting, per vertex or per pixel. Because that's what makes 3D look 3D, it has to have depth, full bright looks horrible.
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Re: Your opinion on 3D models in classic Doom

Postby Caligari87 » Tue Jul 21, 2020 6:53 pm

NotDoom wrote:Doom with 3D models is strange because the game is a top down game. Everything lies on a XY plane. You can't jump over stuff or pass under things.


This is thoroughly not true, please educate yourself and stop spreading misinformation


8-)
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Re: Your opinion on 3D models in classic Doom

Postby Dynamo » Wed Jul 22, 2020 1:03 am

I find that the best application for models in GZDoom is props, and even that has to be carefully done, and usually, voxels work better. But I can see models being used for stuff such as vegetation in the distance without it looking bad at all next to all the other 2D graphics. I'm sure there's many other applications where models (and voxels) would work great as props too.
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Re: Your opinion on 3D models in classic Doom

Postby Graf Zahl » Wed Jul 22, 2020 2:11 am

Matt wrote:Models can be made not to interpolate, right? That might help with the uncanny slippy-slidey effect.
(I don't know because I never use them - which probably answers the OP question)



No, that'd look extremely bad and would make the models stand out like a sore thumb even more. Don't forget that Doom's walking animations are often AABBCCDD with frame delays larger than 1, so without hacks it's impossible to map to a model animation.
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