Wolfenstein Games

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TDG
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Wolfenstein Games

Post by TDG »

A topic for Wolfenstein games in general inspired by the discussion some people have been having in the Wolfendoom Blade of Agony topic.

One of the topics we have been discussing is the element of the supernatural in Wolfenstein games and if it really belongs or works.
Personally I rather like the supernatural elements which first started in the Wolfenstein 3D prequel Spear of Destiny (the player taking on the Angel of Death) and which were continued in RTCW (zombies, prince Heinrich), and Wolfenstein 2009 (though it was more of a mix of supernatural and other dimensional).

Please do not confuse this with super science or science! (really advanced weaponry, genetically and cybernetically modified creatures, robots, jetpacks etc)

For me this worked quite well in RTCW and Wolfenstein 2009 but I happen to be a fan of this type of the "secret war" of World War 2 pulp storylines, examples which can for example found in Hellboy and BPRD comics, or Indiana Jones movies, games, and comics even if that technically takes place before World War 2.

I have not mentioned Wolfenstein The Old Blood yet but from what I understand the zombies and that monster at the end of the game were not the result of the occult but rather from the same source of science that also produced the weapons, robots, advanced war machines in Wolfentein the New Order and games set after it.
It did not really work for me there because some of the gameplay (some of the forced stealth sections) and the storyline.

Hope to hear from others on this topic or other Wolfenstein related topics they want to discuss.
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Dynamo
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Re: Wolfenstein Games

Post by Dynamo »

The supernatural stuff was nothing more than another cheesy evil scheme given to the Nazis in Wolfenstein 3D (alongside the mutants/undead, and the improbable chemical weapons). The ultra-serious tone adopted in later Wolfenstein games was IMHO very out of place (particularly from Wolf 2009 onwards) and whenever I think of the franchise, I think of Wolfenstein 3D and its many mods as being the true representatives of the franchise, with subsequent licensed games not following in the steps of the original and ending up as being, essentially, completely different to id's game and franchise as envisioned in Wolf3D and Spear of Destiny. As a result, I personally don't think the supernatural stuff or the super high tech robot stuff are in any way staples of the franchise, and if there was ever a perfect visual representation of what Wolfenstein ought to be about, I think it's this. There is something unique about exploring the dungeons of the Nazi castles and military bases, it's always filled me with a sense of childhood discovery and wonder about what might lay behind the locked doors, what fabulous treasures are hidden behind the pushwalls, what type of dangers and enemy compositions await beyond, what challenges the levels have in store for me (some wolf3d custom maps and mods are *really* hard). That is what I think of when I think of Wolfenstein and I wouldn't want it any other way :)
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Redneckerz
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Re: Wolfenstein Games

Post by Redneckerz »

I have played Wolfenstein 2009 up to the final boss, which i can't seem to beat (on X360). Git gud, i know.

I liked the hub idea that it came with, but the respawner enemy mechanic was just trite - Especially when these enemies weren't just low level grunts but rather heavy weapons guys. Combine that with having to cross that hub area a few times in one play through and you will understand you will think about backtracking a lot more.

Still quite a fun game though, and its visually quite attractive, even today. Raven did well modifying that old Doom 3 tech, it looks good.
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TDG
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Re: Wolfenstein Games

Post by TDG »

Hi Dynamo

Okay everybody has their own preferred version of the franchise.
I did try to get back into the older Wolfenstein games but like with Doom 1 and 2 it just can not hold my attention. For me FPS games became interesting with Half Life, that is why RTCW and Wolfenstein 2009 worked so well with me.

I however feel that cheesy evil schemes play an important role in Wolfenstein games and like you said that at some point it became way too serious.
As I mentioned in the BOA topic, I do feel the supernatural and super science! have a role in Wolfenstein games but but it should never overtake the more regular/mundane Nazi/Wehrmacht elements.
To me for example a plot works better if its like "The Nazis are building a deadly killer robot (or a couple of them), go destroy it before the Nazis unleash an army of these death machines" and not that at some point most of the enemies you come across are the Nazi killer robots.
Or they try to recruit a vampire which you have to destroy, and not suddenly run into armies of Nazi vampires.

Still personally I feel RTCW and Wolf2009 had reached a relative good balance between... well I hate to use the word realistic as that is not fitting but I hope you get what I mean, and the fantastic elements.

Redneckerz,

Yeah I get you regarding the hub. I sometimes wonder if the game had perhaps better worked without a hub level connecting everything and these and the other hub just being two levels you go through once.

I definitely liked the looks for the game, it just helped adding to that Indiana Jones vibe I felt.

I just found out from someone else that apparently 80 percent of what had been planned had been cut due to budget cuts. That makes me rather sad as I really wish that Wolfenstein 2009 had more levels and bigger ones.
I was having a good time when the end suddenly came and left me disappointed that there wasn't more.
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Re: Wolfenstein Games

Post by SanyaWaffles »

I'm going to start with the negative.

I can't place it, but I genuinely didn't like Wolfenstein II: The New Colossus. I dunno what it was specifically, but I didn't care for it. Yet I liked Wolfenstein: The New Order very well. However, I'm starting to think my liking of TNO was not well placed. I can't place it. I'll think about it and get back to you all on that, but it's gonna be a mixed bag, from some of the social commentary in the games to the gameplay itself. I especially didn't like the direction the second game in the new series went. And I hear Youngblood's gameplay is worse, but I haven't played it so it's not fair for me to say.

However nothing will top the original Wolfenstein games. There was something about them. Yeah, the level design was simple and the graphics cartoony as fuck... but I genuinely enjoyed the idea of going around Nazi dungeons and collecting treasures and blowing away one of the most evil regimes on the planet.

I think it was because it was so simple: Nazis bad, shoot them, collect their treasures, make the bastards pay. Save the world. Simple. Sure there was alot of details about BJ himself (including him being related to Commander Keen) that I liked too. Yeah, lore can be more intricate. But maybe you don't need a complex story to make it a good one. And that's something the newer games forget.

There was something cosmically amazing about Tom Hall's over the top cartoony style of worldbuilding, and that carried over to what I consider to be a true spiritual successor to Wolf3D: Rise of the Triad. It's a shame that ROTT has yet to have a good source port (and one that I can compile on Windows easily) as I feel it's more in line to what the original Wolf3D was: speed, dungeons and crazy ass enemies. I even like the reboot of ROTT, albiet it's janky as fuck and doesn't have the special touch of Tom Hall, but it's decent.

For me I always appreciated Wolf3D for also being one game that me and mom could relate to. Commander Keen and Wolf3D was my gateway to PC gaming, and it's one of the few things that brings us together considering how much we're drifting apart in all aspects, her being a christian yet surprisingly liberal boomer, and me being whatever the fuck I am... it's nice to see we still can relate to this game in some way.

Spear of Destiny was a fun game, I never played it until my teens. I did enjoy RTCW and Wolfenstein 2009, but nothing was quite as fun for me as Wolf3D.

Believe it or not I actually made a TC for Wolfenstein 3D and is considered the prequel to Daytime Drama (it's in the same crossover universe). I'm gonna remaster it into GZDoom someday.

Point being, Wolf3D is one of my favorite games and it's had a great impact on me, and it's sad to see that the latest games have been kind of not my cup of tea. Then again, they're still miles ahead of what they did to Commander Keen recently. *shudder*

Dynamo wrote: if there was ever a perfect visual representation of what Wolfenstein ought to be about, I think it's this.


That's amazing. I wanna check out their other work!

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