ZDoom

Usually, when a game comes out that looks like it's going to be a stinker, people with my opinion are the majority, but here and anywhere else on the web, it seems, anyone who is uninterested in Brutal Doom: The Way Id and Bethesda Do It II, is the minority. I was unimpressed with Doom 2016 once the hype went away, and I am sure I would feel the same disappointment with Doom Eternal, and face the similar disappointment I've had with the new Wolfenstein games, but I will say that though I fully HATE these games, and think they are boring, bland, repetitive, etc, I am glad that it at least gets new people interested in Doom.. but they aren't into the Doom I grew up with, and one day there will no longer be people who grew up with the old games. Maybe this is what Doom is all about to them, but it sure as hell is not to me, but I'll leave it up to future generations to decide.

gerolf wrote:Usually, when a game comes out that looks like it's going to be a stinker, people with my opinion are the majority, but here and anywhere else on the web, it seems, anyone who is uninterested in Brutal Doom: The Way Id and Bethesda Do It II, is the minority. I was unimpressed with Doom 2016 once the hype went away, and I am sure I would feel the same disappointment with Doom Eternal, and face the similar disappointment I've had with the new Wolfenstein games, but I will say that though I fully HATE these games, and think they are boring, bland, repetitive, etc, I am glad that it at least gets new people interested in Doom.. but they aren't into the Doom I grew up with, and one day there will no longer be people who grew up with the old games. Maybe this is what Doom is all about to them, but it sure as hell is not to me, but I'll leave it up to future generations to decide.

You have the right to your opinion, but this is definitely 1000x more "Doom" than Doom 3 was, (even though I like Doom 3.) Playing through Doom 4 a few times was one of the most enjoyable game experiences of my life, and I grew up with Catacombs 3D, Wolfenstein 3D etc.

Also, the new Wolfensteins are also amazing. wtf. lol

gerolf wrote:Usually, when a game comes out that looks like it's going to be a stinker, people with my opinion are the majority, but here and anywhere else on the web, it seems, anyone who is uninterested in Brutal Doom: The Way Id and Bethesda Do It II, is the minority. I was unimpressed with Doom 2016 once the hype went away, and I am sure I would feel the same disappointment with Doom Eternal, and face the similar disappointment I've had with the new Wolfenstein games, but I will say that though I fully HATE these games, and think they are boring, bland, repetitive, etc, I am glad that it at least gets new people interested in Doom.. but they aren't into the Doom I grew up with, and one day there will no longer be people who grew up with the old games. Maybe this is what Doom is all about to them, but it sure as hell is not to me, but I'll leave it up to future generations to decide.

It's like nobody is allowed to just like a thing for what it is, sometimes. (Sigh)

I'm quite happy with what Doom 2016 is, because it's more interesting to see the ways things can be reinterpreted and rethought, and unlike Doom 3, they put more thought into the feel of it. But above all that, 2016 and Eternal existing in no way invalidates the original. And that's the way it really ought to be - any new thing that comes out doesn't (usually) mean nobody can still play the things that came before, and not everything needs Universal Acclaim to be successful and enjoyable.

That's not what I meant. I meant that there will one day be a time that there won't be people alive who grew up with Doom/Doom II BEFORE Doom 3/Doom 2016, etc were around. It will be up to them to decide if this is what Doom is all about to them or not, not me, but in my opinion, no this is not anything else than what people who enjoy Brutal Doom imagine Doom should be like, and that's just not for me.

I mean, that's life. Doom was released in 1993, its 26 years old now. At some point there's going to be too much media for one person to consume.

If someones first experience with doom is doom 2016 then that's doom for them and honestly I think that's fine. Long standing IPs tend to change. There's plenty of other games that recapture dooms gameplay loop anyway, even recent indie titles.

Enjay wrote:

Matt wrote:Someone on Tumblr (was it IMX?) summed it up very well: remember that Doom started as a sci-fi horror game. D3 for all its alleged faults lived up to that. D4+ tried way too hard to be everything D3 wasn't and the sci-fi horror baby got thrown out in the bathwater.

I think that really does cover what I'm seeing and feel. Much as I have ragged on Doom3 over the years and I really still feel it was an incredibly mediocre game with serious flaws, I do see far more in it that appeals to me in the basic style and premise of the game than what I'm seeing with Doom Eternal.


BTW, I'm not sure if I've seen it explicitly stated anywhere. Is there any chance the name "Doom Eternal" is any kind of reference/homage to the original 1996 Eternal Doom mod (and sequels) or is it just coincidence?

Definitely a coincidence, I doubt much of Doom Eternal's target demographic has any clue what Eternal Doom is or who TeamTNT are.

Going off that I doubt Doom Eternal's target demographic sees the Doom franchise as "sci fi horror" either, but as a power fantasy. This new generation of Doom fans didn't get into it when it was new, "realistic," and scary, where the blue key trap in E1M3 could scare the bejeezus out of you.

EDIT: I should clarify that I probably qualify as "the new generation" myself and only got into more oldschool style Doom stuff after the fact.

They're getting into it in the age of slaughtermap WADs, Brutal Doom, UV speedruns and Zero Master, and Doom Comic memes ("RIP AND TEAR!!1!"). The failure of the slower, more horror based Doom 3 probably contributed to that process quite a bit too. It's just a different time, and a different public perception of what Doom "is."

If I ever have kids, the first version of Doom they will ever experience is the 1993 version on GZDoom. I don't want them growing up and falling victim to the cynical world of exploitative microtransactions and mega-flashy graphics and not knowing what really was fun back in the day and where it all came from. I don't want them to never know that there was once a time when all the content came with the game for free, and it was moddable. If they don't like it, that's their choice - at least I exposed them to something better than what they will ever see in their lifetime.

And I know some extremist idiots are going to get on my ass about how I shouldn't be exposing kids to games like that - fuck them. I was introduced to Doom when I was 9 years old and I have never partaken in a school shooting. It's all a myth that video games cause violence.

As someone that played Doom the year it came out, I never saw Doom as sci-fi horror. The game has always been a clash of weird genres. Sure, the first episode does look sort of like a future tech base, but aside from those textures the game's assets are all over the map. When levels look nothing like the real world you're more or less free to interpret it any way you want.

I'm pretty sure most players at the time saw the game as a fun game where you shot monsters with a shotgun with no real story behind it whatsoever. By the time they started thinking about such stuff they'd already moved on to Duke Nukem.

I personally saw Doom as a sci-fi action-horror mix. It has its moments where you're blasting demons around every corner with rock music in the background, but there are also moments where you're creeping through dark corridors with moody orchestral music causing you to worry if a group of enemies is going to appear in front (or behind) you. And when you're wielding plasma weapons on inter-planetary moons and jumping through teleporters, it's definitely sci-fi.

I see Doom 3 as Doom with pumped up horror and less emphasis on the action, whereas Doom 2016 is Doom with pumped up action and less emphasis on the horror. I consider Doom64 to be the last game in the series that represents Doom-as-it-was. It did lean a bit more toward the horror side with somewhat slower action compared to the original (which I attribute to hardware limitations; slower turning with the controller, and shaded colored lighting to make up for limited texture memory), but not to the extent that Doom 3 took it.

To be clear: I agree that the official genre of Doom is sci-fi with a hell theme. I just don't think it really mattered to many people back then. This was the first proper shooter and that's what the friends I knew paid attention to - not its porn-plot deep backdrop of a story.

Doom 2016 is a sci-fi horror game, except you're the slasher-film monster.

One could fit the entire in-game story of The Ultimate Doom on the back of a postcard, so it's really not too tough to suss out what id were going for. There were absolutely elements of horror (E1M3's blue key trap was a defining moment in my childhood as well) but Doom has always been a massive power fantasy, at least by the intermission text.

Not that I'm trying to imply that anyone who doesn't like the current direction of the series is wrong to do so, but it seems a little silly to argue that it's not in the spirit of the originals.

Rachael wrote:And I know some extremist idiots are going to get on my ass about how I shouldn't be exposing kids to games like that - fuck them. I was introduced to Doom when I was 9 years old and I have never partaken in a school shooting. It's all a myth that video games cause violence.

I was exposed to Catacombs 3D and Wolfenstein 3D very young. My mother wanted us to stop playing Wolfenstein that young, but she was okay with Doom (plus we were a bit older when it came out) because it was "monsters" not "humans". We all could very easily differentiate between fantasy and reality. Doom and other shooters may have had an impact on my early fascination with firearms, but in a positive way (I was teaching gun safety to adults at 15 years old).

The media is always looking for a scape goat for violence. The Columbine shooting (that I imagine you are referencing) was blamed on Doom, Rammstein, and Marilyn Manson. Obviously, there are millions of people that played Doom, and I imagine thousands of people that developed levels for it as a hobby. None of them did anything evil like this. Rammstein doesn't even really have violent lyrics, they are mostly... sexual in nature. And as Eminem said, "and they blame it on Marilyn, and the heroin.. well where were the parents at???" Absolute nonsense, you are right.

Back on topic. Are you going to show your kids with or without z-looking? I love GZDoom for the higher resolutions (and OpenGL lighting effects/fog etc.), but I refuse to z-look or mouse look in Doom. Just my personal preference, but I don't like it. I play on Ultra Violence with (numpad) arrow keys, shift, ctrl, alt, space bar, and 1-7 keys. lol Trying to use a mouse in Doom feels wrong or off to me. Like trying to write with your non-dominant hand. Which is weird, considering I use SZXC (WASD) + mouse for all the hundreds of modern FPS's I've played from Quake 1 up. lol

Nash wrote:Sounds like what people really want is "Doom 1 / Doom 2 but with triple A graphics". You want Doom 1-style levels, 7 - 8 weapons, a good mix of closed/tight spaces, tech bases, and some outdoor areas, key hunting, and high monster count (50 - 100 per level).

Someone should just make this game in GZDoom.

Pretty much this, i mean if i wanted to play Doom 1 and 2 with fancy graphics I play those games in GZDoom with Smooth Doom or whatnot.
Doom 2016 offered a different take on the same formulas, fast paced gameplay, monster variety and world traversal.

For me the "its a generic modern shooter" comment leaves me scratching my head, because Doom 2016 and Eternal is nothing like the endless Military/Open World/Free to play games that come out nowadays. the only "bad modern shooter" trope thing i see is aiming down the sights which makes sense for guns in general.

I saw falling damage in one of the videos which is odd because Doom 4 didnt have falling damage.