EU Parliament Passes Articles 11/13

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Re: EU Parliament Passes Articles 11/13

Postby Cacodemon345 » Sat Jan 19, 2019 12:57 am

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Re: EU Parliament Passes Articles 11/13

Postby Apeirogon » Sat Jan 19, 2019 3:58 am

Just like I said before, this article will not be accepted because people who want this have a little/dont have at all knowledge how internet works.

But money for development is still being allocated...
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Re: EU Parliament Passes Articles 11/13

Postby Wiw » Mon Jan 21, 2019 6:50 am

Well I've heard they've cancelled the final negotiations on it!

https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20190 ... port.shtml

So, I guess we can relax for the time being!
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Re: EU Parliament Passes Articles 11/13

Postby Rachael » Mon Jan 21, 2019 8:31 am

Take a lesson from US politics that we've had to learn the harsh and hard way: Big money never sleeps. Once the corruption starts, it *NEVER* quits, it *NEVER* dies, it will just wait until you are completely complacent and unaware and then it will try again, this time hoping you're asleep while they push it through. This will not be the last you have seen of these articles.
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Re: EU Parliament Passes Articles 11/13

Postby Graf Zahl » Mon Jan 21, 2019 8:55 am

So, this went exactly as I predicted. No real surprise.
It looks like the big players have just enough power to influence the "experts", but not many others beyond that group - it's a story that had repeated itself with virtually every copyright reform that was attempted in recent time. Once these things get scrutinized by people who do not have a personal stake in the matter they always fall apart.
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Re: EU Parliament Passes Articles 11/13

Postby Cacodemon345 » Wed Feb 06, 2019 8:35 am

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Re: EU Parliament Passes Articles 11/13

Postby Rachael » Wed Feb 06, 2019 8:40 am

Rachael wrote:Take a lesson from US politics that we've had to learn the harsh and hard way: Big money never sleeps. Once the corruption starts, it *NEVER* quits, it *NEVER* dies, it will just wait until you are completely complacent and unaware and then it will try again, this time hoping you're asleep while they push it through. This will not be the last you have seen of these articles.

I hate being right, sometimes. (Good find, Cacodemon)

If you're in the EU, this obviously means you have to fight tooth and nail to make sure those articles die, completely.

And then you have to make sure they never come back in another form - because I guarantee you, they will. This isn't being cynical - this is just understanding how corporations fight these issues - you cannot win by being asleep at the wheel, and you won't be able to in the EU either.

Once they win in the EU, they are NOT going to stop there - they will do their best to make sure that the EU version of these laws spreads to all parts of the world, and to make matters worse they will find ways to make the laws even more draconian than they already are. Again - this isn't cynicism or paranoia - this is what they do.
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Re: EU Parliament Passes Articles 11/13

Postby Graf Zahl » Wed Feb 06, 2019 9:07 am

Rachael wrote:And then you have to make sure they never come back in another form - because I guarantee you, they will.


To make sure of that, you need to get these laws passed by parliament, and have a court declare it unconstitutional. That's pretty much the only way to get these things shut down for good. So far, every such initiative died long before it reached that stage, though.

Nevertheless, it's really hard to make out which side here is putting out more bullshit, the one thing I am certain about is that neither is honest (and that will make it very hard for the activists to achieve anything.) Just reading through those activists's blogs makes my head hurt.
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Re: EU Parliament Passes Articles 11/13

Postby Rachael » Wed Feb 06, 2019 9:15 am

Graf Zahl wrote:To make sure of that, you need to get these laws passed by parliament, and have a court declare it unconstitutional.

In that case, hopefully you have an impartial and uncorrupted court. In the US, it's common practice for corporations to buy magistrates/judges/justices.
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Re: EU Parliament Passes Articles 11/13

Postby Graf Zahl » Wed Feb 06, 2019 9:28 am

Yes, but the US legal system is like a banana republic, everybody knows that.
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Re: EU Parliament Passes Articles 11/13

Postby Rachael » Wed Feb 06, 2019 10:00 am

Indeed. Sadly. Except those who watch mainstream media full-time and actually buy into the propaganda. Which sadly - such people do exist. (And before you guys get on me about how "Oh, MY side doesn't do that!" I will just say Fox News and MSNBC are both equally reprehensible and do the exact same things in this regard - don't try and construe this as me taking a liberal stance, because the liberals in this case are just as bad, if not worse in some scenarios - both news outlets, and pretty much everyone in between them, lie to you outright and shamelessly about how things are in this country)
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Re: EU Parliament Passes Articles 11/13

Postby Gez » Wed Feb 06, 2019 10:05 am

Banana republics were literally invented by and for US corporations after all; it's only logical that centuries of lobbying would have eventually allowed them to do at home what they were used to doing abroad. All it takes is a system that values corporate rights above human rights, and that's been the case in the US since Citizens United.

The assumption that human rights are also to be granted to corporations is something that should have been nipped in the bud a long time ago, but it unfortunately wasn't.
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Re: EU Parliament Passes Articles 11/13

Postby Rachael » Wed Feb 06, 2019 10:17 am

Gez wrote:Banana republics were literally invented by and for US corporations after all; it's only logical that centuries of lobbying would have eventually allowed them to do at home what they were used to doing abroad. All it takes is a system that values corporate rights above human rights, and that's been the case in the US since Citizens United.

The assumption that human rights are also to be granted to corporations is something that should have been nipped in the bud a long time ago, but it unfortunately wasn't.


If you're a US citizen, read this post carefully. This is the root of 99% of problems in the US today, as spoken to you by someone not from the US.

It's agonizing how foreigners understand our government better than our own citizens, but it's not that surprising considering the civics courses are no longer required in public schools, and that the rich and elite are putting forth a lot of effort to de-fund schools and make them as unappealing as possible to the average citizen. A modicum of research in a country that encourages it is literally the equivalent of a lifetime of revelation here.

Shining beacon on a hill? We were that, once. Keep in mind, this hill has been rolling downward long before Citizens United (2010), though. The first of corporate personhood since FDR's New Deal arguably started with FNB of Boston V. Bellotti (1978), which held that corporations were able to spend money in elections and that the money was considered "speech". That is the decision that marked a decline in employee wages and the gradual dissolution of worker unions, to the point where we are today.

Why is any of this relevant to this topic, though? Because they are, again, trying the same things abroad - including in the EU - and apparently you have to fight constantly to stop it.
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Re: EU Parliament Passes Articles 11/13

Postby Apeirogon » Wed Feb 06, 2019 11:06 am

You exaggerate, about corporatocracy and such. "No need to search evil intent in things which can be explained by simple human stupidity", you know!?
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Re: EU Parliament Passes Articles 11/13

Postby Rachael » Wed Feb 06, 2019 11:08 am

Trust me - no I do not exaggerate. I know what it is that drives these people - the executives and high ranking corporate officers. They have a genuine addiction to money - it's a mental illness. This is no different than an addiction to drugs - they need to have more of it, and they need to have more than their friends. They do not care who they hurt in the process.

It's not as much evil as it is simple instinct. The problem can be solved - but these people have to learn to live on what they can actually use, not just whatever they get. I have no issue with people being rich - except when it comes at the cost of *everyone* else.
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