Bethesda blocks resale of a game

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Chris
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Re: Bethesda blocks resale of a game

Post by Chris »

JadedLexi wrote:This thread just reads like people are making a bigger issue of something than it is...
Using reasoning that effectively dismantles the first sale doctrine, opening up all unauthorized/second-hand sales to potential lawsuits, should be a pretty big deal. It's quite disconcerting that there are people trying to defend Bethesda's actions (though I guess it shouldn't surprise me). This post will be the last I have to say on this issue otherwise I'll be repeating myself, so you don't have to worry about more walls of text from me.

Here's the thing. Let's give Bethesda the benefit of the doubt. Let's say they're being completely honest and truly harbor no ill-will at all toward the second-hand market. They say they're doing this to protect their customers because they can't verify a listing for a New copy of The Evil Within 2 is in fact New. Right? Whereas currently such a dispute for a product not being sold as advertised is between the buyer and seller (and probably the storefront; and it should be known Amazon and eBay already do a lot to protect buyers from disputed or fraudulent sales, without the help of publishers), Bethesda is claiming they can interject themselves on a non-existent buyer's behalf to protect potential buyers. Even if Bethesda's motives are totally pure and completely altruistic, one must ask if we want to allow any and all publishers that kind of power. Maybe next time someone tries to pull that reasoning, it'll be Ubisoft or Activision-Blizzard that's interjecting themselves. You only need to make a few minor tweaks to run with it ('we can't verify new game X is new, vs we can't verify pre-owned game X is game X, or we can't verify used game X is still usable, we're just looking out for our customers and ensuring they get what they pay for!).

Similarly they're saying they can do this because the first sale doctrine doesn't apply, since the lack of original warranty makes it "materially different", right? And I'm even giving Vorys the benefit of the doubt that what they say about overcoming the first sale doctrine with a trademark suit would hold up. The problem with that is, the first sale doctrine says nothing about a product being resold as new or used. So if it's found to be materially different, the first sale doctrine doesn't apply and Bethesda retains the rights to that copy. Think about that. No longer having the original warranty would make it materially different, thereby removing first-sale protections and reverting ownership back to the publisher, without regard to it being listed as New, Pre-Owned, or Used. If you try to resell a copy without its warranty, the publisher would have the full right to control what happens with that copy. And again, even if Bethesda's intentions are pure and altruistic here and they won't ever do anything nefarious, allowing one publisher must allow them all. Perhaps next time it'll be EA or Nintendo claiming no first sale protections because there's no warranty.

Ever heard the saying "the road to hell is paved with good intentions"? Giving power to someone who'll wield it fair and justly to help those in need is all well and good, but if in giving that power, it can be equally wielded by less scrupulous people for less-than-kind purposes? You've got a problem. I don't trust Bethesda on this, but even if I'm wrong and their intentions are noble and pure, letting their reasoning stand would send a chilling effect through the second-hand market.
JadedLexi
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Re: Bethesda blocks resale of a game

Post by JadedLexi »

Wow, I didn't really ask for an essay explaining why they're supposedly in the wrong this time, but OK. It just sounds to me like you're angry that they maybe, just maybe they are actually in the right this time and how dare other people say that and explain why! Right? All of this doomsaying over a fucking resale isn't getting anyone anywhere.
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Chris
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Re: Bethesda blocks resale of a game

Post by Chris »

JadedLexi wrote:It just sounds to me like you're angry that they maybe, just maybe they are actually in the right this time and how dare other people say that and explain why! Right?
As I said, I was giving them the benefit of the doubt and explaining why them being right would be a problem. But sorry for trying to explain my reasoning instead of accepting PR-speak, it's not as if people ignoring legitimate issues is what has led us to where we are with digital distribution markets significantly choking the second-hand market already while stepping all over a number of laws intended to protect us as consumers.
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Re: Bethesda blocks resale of a game

Post by Rachael »

JadedLexi wrote:This thread just reads like people are making a bigger issue of something than it is...
No, it very much isn't.

Corporations are by their very nature insidious. That means they do things progressively badly. It starts with a good excuse to do something terrible, and it gets worse from there. This is not doomsaying to say that - it's actually standard procedure and has happened a number of times.

The reason why this is so big is because of exactly that - it seems so innocent to start, but the next time, and the next time, and the next time, it's going to get worse and worse and worse. Until you have things like loot boxes, pre-order bonuses, DLC barrages and season passes, multi-tiered price points, etc.

And as Graf has explained in the past, digital distribution, especially with the likes of Steam, is their way of stamping out second-hand sales. No matter how it's legally defined, this is only step one in the process. Mark my words - this will happen again, and next time the word "new" will not be the center point of the whole issue.

Remember when Blizzard was bought out by Activision and they put the Celestial Steed in the store? It was a one-off thing, oh, it's the only one they're doing, okay fine they can put ONE mount there.... and then one became two, two became more, more mounts became also pets and armour, and so on and so on and so on. Every time, it's a rabbit hole, and it only ends when the corporation stops making money off of that bullshit.
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Re: Bethesda blocks resale of a game

Post by SouthernLion »

Wow, that was a really good post, Rachael. I wanted to express all of that, but I lack the vocabulary and communication skills to get it across like that.
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Re: Bethesda blocks resale of a game

Post by Enjay »

And it's not just current business. The principle has always existed that corporations/businesses will exploit situations and people unless they are compelled not to.

Industrial revolution mine owner: So, there's nothing stopping me from sending men and boys down the mine for hours on end with nothing more than a candle to light their way, expecting them to crawl on their bellies to the coal face and then stay there for the rest of their shift, getting them to sign an agreement where they give me exclusive rights to their service, setting a ridiculously high daily quotas for them to achieve, beating them if they fail to achieve them, expecting them to buy their own equipment and turning a blind eye to the health implications and health and safety risks? I see no downside to this.
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Re: Bethesda blocks resale of a game

Post by Rachael »

Enjay pretty much hit the nail on the head.

People in charge of things at corporations, whether they are managers or owners, only care about the well-being of other people when it affects them personally. It's no different for Bethesda, and it's no different for Vorys, it's no different for virtually any other multi-million dollar corporation in existence, whether multi-national or not.
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