Microsoft + Github Acquisition (Rumors)

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Re: Microsoft + Github Acquisition (Rumors)

Postby wolfmanfp » Mon Jun 04, 2018 1:31 pm

Rachael wrote:It's not to say that Microsoft fucks up everything they touch, except, well, they do.


In the last few years, not so much. All of Microsoft's post-Ballmer acquisitions (Mojang, LinkedIn, Xamarin) are doing fine. I think MS's strategy is being a large part of open source development - they made Roslyn, VS Code and .NET Core open-source, and developed a Linux subsystem for Win10. Chill guys, nothing bad will happen.
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Re: Microsoft + Github Acquisition (Rumors)

Postby Kinsie » Mon Jun 04, 2018 1:41 pm

wolfmanfp wrote:Chill guys, nothing bad will happen.
I wouldn't necessarily discount bad things ever happening, but I'm gonna wait until I see what's casting the shadows before I jump at them.

As for the alternatives, it's probably best to look before you leap.
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Re: Microsoft + Github Acquisition (Rumors)

Postby dpJudas » Mon Jun 04, 2018 1:58 pm

wolfmanfp wrote:they made Roslyn, VS Code and .NET Core open-source, and developed a Linux subsystem for Win10

I love how you spin things they made entirely in their own self-interest as a thing they did for the open source community.
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Re: Microsoft + Github Acquisition (Rumors)

Postby wolfmanfp » Mon Jun 04, 2018 2:10 pm

dpJudas wrote:
wolfmanfp wrote:they made Roslyn, VS Code and .NET Core open-source, and developed a Linux subsystem for Win10

I love how you spin things they made entirely in their own self-interest as a thing they did for the open source community.

They made these in their own self-interest, that's true. But do you think the FOSS community can't benefit from these?
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Re: Microsoft + Github Acquisition (Rumors)

Postby dpJudas » Mon Jun 04, 2018 2:29 pm

wolfmanfp wrote:They made these in their own self-interest, that's true. But do you think the FOSS community can't benefit from these?

Sure, some Microsoft open source contributions might be useful on their own. However, your post also said this:

wolfmanfp wrote:I think MS's strategy is being a large part of open source development

Which I frankly don't believe to be true beyond the cases where it aids Microsoft's efforts and interests. They may have stopped their Ballmer cold war on open source, but only because they were losing that war. Now they help open source developers add Microsoft dependencies, but that's about as far as their love for open source go.

For that reason I expect GitHub to eventually require a Microsoft account to log into GitHub. And they'll drown it in Azure/TFS integration there wouldn't have been added otherwise. Might take a while, but eventually they'll add that kind of "synergy". The real reason Microsoft is buying GitHub isn't for the love of open source -- it is because their Team Foundation Server platform lost the battle to GitHub.
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Re: Microsoft + Github Acquisition (Rumors)

Postby Graf Zahl » Mon Jun 04, 2018 2:38 pm

Trust me, once they start doing shit I am going to nuke the repo and move it to my Bitbucket account in no time. And I'm quite sure that others will do the same. It's not that they have any monopoly here they can exploit. Ultimately if some popular project goes away its users either have to move along or get left behind. And if too many projects leave the platform may just die.

Wanna bet that some die-hard FOSS people have already done that?

I still do not like this concentration of power in the computing world. A few years down the line it may all be owned by Microsoft, Google, Apple or Amazon. Not good prospects.
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Re: Microsoft + Github Acquisition (Rumors)

Postby Rachael » Mon Jun 04, 2018 3:34 pm

dpJudas wrote:For that reason I expect GitHub to eventually require a Microsoft account to log into GitHub. And they'll drown it in Azure/TFS integration there wouldn't have been added otherwise. Might take a while, but eventually they'll add that kind of "synergy". The real reason Microsoft is buying GitHub isn't for the love of open source -- it is because their Team Foundation Server platform lost the battle to GitHub.

This is exactly what I was thinking would happen, too.
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Re: Microsoft + Github Acquisition (Rumors)

Postby Graf Zahl » Mon Jun 04, 2018 3:40 pm

That's something they cannot un-lose. Nobody who switched to Git will ever bother with some costly enterprise solution that costs lots of $$$.

I just repeat what I said: If they start doing such bullshit they'll lose projects left and right and in the end Github will no longer be the leading hosting platform. There's really nothing here that locks users into it.

(On the other hand, why are some projects still on Sourceforge? That site really and truly aggravates me with its ad pushing and other hostile behavior.)
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Re: Microsoft + Github Acquisition (Rumors)

Postby Accensus » Mon Jun 04, 2018 4:16 pm

GitLab's pretty good as an alternative. Been using that for a couple of projects and can say I've never really had any problems with it thus far. Its UI's better than GitHub's, at least in my opinion.
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Re: Microsoft + Github Acquisition (Rumors)

Postby Marrub » Mon Jun 04, 2018 5:44 pm

Embrace Extend Extinguish is a terrifying drug, it seems once Microsoft first hit it, they never could stop... :lol:
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Re: Microsoft + Github Acquisition (Rumors)

Postby leileilol » Mon Jun 04, 2018 6:13 pm

I'm on the side of riding it out until "The Bad Thing" occurs. I'm not in an alarmist panic over this.

in the meantime, hold Apple's beer.
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Re: Microsoft + Github Acquisition (Rumors)

Postby Chris » Mon Jun 04, 2018 10:18 pm

wolfmanfp wrote:All of Microsoft's post-Ballmer acquisitions (Mojang, LinkedIn, Xamarin) are doing fine.

"Fine" in what sense? They're profitable? Sure, that's the point of the actions a corporation makes. But is it necessarily good for the public?

Well, take a look at Mojang/Minecraft. Not long after the buyout, they started development on a new "Windows 10 Edition" version, as well as new Editions for various consoles and other platforms, using a new engine. Notably absent from these versions is support for Windows Vista/7/8, OSX, and Linux. Some time later, they had their big "Better Together" update where all these various Editions were rebranded under the "Minecraft" name (no longer sporting an Edition moniker). Meanwhile, the original cross-platform Java version was rebranded "Minecraft Java Edition" to separate it from the Minecraft name proper. Ironically, this means the "Better Together" update made "Minecraft" more disjointed as previously-supported platforms were relegated to a separate version, and pulling people away from the main Java version. And sure, the "Java Edition" is still seeing updates, but you can be sure focus is shifting away from it as Microsoft encourages use of the Windows 10 or console versions.

Is that "doing fine"? Not by my metrics.

developed a Linux subsystem for Win10.

They developed Java for Windows at one time too. Look what happened with that. In case you aren't aware, back in the day Microsoft partnered with Sun to develop a version of Java for Windows. At first, it was all fine. Over time, Microsoft started adding extensions to their version, which made code written for the Windows version no longer work with Sun's. It got bad enough that Sun had to sue Microsoft to stop them from making an incompatible version of Java. Sun won, but rather than play nice with Sun/Java, Microsoft just basically dropped it and developed .NET instead.

I'll be more impressed when I see Microsoft give first-class support for open collaborative standards like POSIX, OpenGL, and Vulkan, rather than trying to stifle them by pushing WinAPI and DirectX, and not do any funny embrace-extend-extinguish nonsense. Of course, that would take time; EEE isn't an overnight thing, it will take years to see if they've actually changed their tune, and there will always be a lingering doubt of distrust as long as they remain profit-driven while having a domineering hold on the market.
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Re: Microsoft + Github Acquisition (Rumors)

Postby Kinsie » Mon Jun 04, 2018 11:23 pm

Lud wrote:GitLab's pretty good as an alternative. Been using that for a couple of projects and can say I've never really had any problems with it thus far. Its UI's better than GitHub's, at least in my opinion.
They're questionably competent and suffered from serious scaling issues even before they were hit by a tidal wave of the over-reactionary.
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Re: Microsoft + Github Acquisition (Rumors)

Postby Graf Zahl » Tue Jun 05, 2018 12:16 am

Chris wrote:They developed Java for Windows at one time too. Look what happened with that. In case you aren't aware, back in the day Microsoft partnered with Sun to develop a version of Java for Windows. At first, it was all fine. Over time, Microsoft started adding extensions to their version, which made code written for the Windows version no longer work with Sun's. It got bad enough that Sun had to sue Microsoft to stop them from making an incompatible version of Java. Sun won, but rather than play nice with Sun/Java, Microsoft just basically dropped it and developed .NET instead.


Behold what happens when two assholes get together.
I'm pretty sure I know what Microsoft was after here, and once they couldn't do it anymore they did their own thing.
The main problem with Java still is that any software made with it feels alien on any system it runs on and if that cannot be fixed the whole thing is of rather low interest as a development tool for many potential customers.
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Re: Microsoft + Github Acquisition (Rumors)

Postby Graf Zahl » Tue Jun 05, 2018 12:20 am

leileilol wrote:I'm on the side of riding it out until "The Bad Thing" occurs. I'm not in an alarmist panic over this.

in the meantime, hold Apple's beer.



So they finally deprecated OpenGL and chose to disconnect themselves from the last industry standard they supported?
I wonder what this means for iOS - will they refuse to accept OpenGL based software in 3-4 years to make their vendor lock-in even stronger?

Overall, I cannot say it surprises me the least. Tim Cook is virtually becoming Apple's Steve Ballmer, i.e. someone with no outlook over the future of computing, only having short term profits in mind.
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