Let's talk about regional prici- I mean Steam and GOG

[Chris]

Steam didn't make it "okay".

They made it far more acceptable in the eyes of the standard gamer. Sure, DRM existed before, but there was also a huge backlash against it. I can't recall how many times people complained upon hearing the word SecuROM. Or the number of rants with people showing their legitimately-purchased games not working because of system incompatibilities with the (in some cases illegal) hacks DRM used and then showing a pirated version work just fine. Heck, I remember people complaining about the code wheel used with SSI's old D&D computer games; if you lost the code wheel, you couldn't play anymore.

And then Steam came along. There was an initial outrage because Valve's newest hot game, Half-Life 2, required Steam (in turn requiring online verification). It forced a number of people onto the platform just to play the game they already bought, people who wouldn't have chosen to use Steam otherwise. It not only required it, but the boxed disk you bought was little more than a Steam installer -- the game itself still needed to be downloaded, so it was also a nice F.U. to people without decent broadband.

Over time, despite very little changing, this outrage turned to praise. Buyer's remorse starts settling in, and rather than admit that they bought into a bad system, people started justifying it. It became okay that you need online verification for offline games. It became okay that your games are encrypted against you on your own system. It became okay that your ability to play games is directly tied to your user account rather than your ownership of the game's disk. It became okay that you don't actually own your purchased games anymore. People bend over backwards to make excuses as to why these things are now okay despite them being the very same things they complained about before Steam.

[Accensus]

Steam is handy. I don't care about its DRM, nor do I care about having a physical copy. Yes, it's tied to an account. So what? At the end of the day I have better things to do and a metric fuckton of games to play than waste time complaining about something for the hell of it. Big deal. The only real bummer is the broadband thing Chris mentioned. That's it. Everything else is not that much of a pain as previously described.

[Chris]

Yes, it's tied to an account. So what?

Lose access to the account, lose access to the games you bought. "So what" isn't a great response to people who've lost hundreds to thousands of dollars in games because of Valve deciding for some arbitrary reason that they can't have their account anymore. With a physical disk, your access to your games is dependent on your ability to maintain possession of your copy/copies of the disk. With Steam, your access to your games is wholly dependent on a separate profit-driven company giving you access.

[Accensus]

Both methods have the risk of something going wrong. Physical copies take physical space. Sooner or later that starts to be a heavy burden. And unless you do some shady business or something against the ToS, Valve declining access to your account for shits and giggles sounds like basic propaganda to me. In other words, post some source of people actually losing access for no good reason.

[insightguy]

Yes, it's tied to an account. So what?

Lose access to the account, lose access to the games you bought. "So what" isn't a great response to people who've lost hundreds to thousands of dollars in games because of Valve deciding for some arbitrary reason that they can't have their account anymore. With a physical disk, your access to your games is dependent on your ability to maintain possession of your copy/copies of the disk. With Steam, your access to your games is wholly dependent on a separate profit-driven company giving you access.

When is the last time steam closed an account for shits and gigs? Cheating just gives you a vac ban and unless you did shit like scamming the store with chargebacks or some shit, I don't really see this happening.
Hell, even games they have taken off the store can still be downloaded if you bought them (Duke Nukem: Megaton edition being the prime example.)

What I do have grievance against is the store being opened like a floodgate and shit spews everywhere. GOG is a nice way to get options.

Both methods have the risk of something going wrong. Physical copies take physical space.

This is why GOG is a nice alternative, there is the cloud for backup and a option for a physical backup

Also, not all of us can have a stable internet condition, reusing installers saves on bandwidth. (Because some people in the AAA games industry have never heard of compression.)

Sorry but trying to get back to the original topic, do you guys have a problem with regional pricing or not? Any specific gripes?

[leileilol]

Funnily enough, this is why I wanted to move over to GOG. Steam began threatening to remove VN games due to being animesque. And that lead me to considering jumping permanently to GOG, hence the thread.

That situation's unfortunately blown out of proportion as some kind of "censorship" exodus.

Steam's always disallowed porn. Only earlier this year they've began to put their foot down on developers providing uncensor patches, considering every game gets a gamehub with uploaded screenshots from the games, you easily can see where this leads to - steamcommunity being a hub to host porn. Many players of the games are aware of this and do this to "spite" certain groups of people they don't like, which doesn't help matters. Valve's laziness to do anything about it for years caused it to normalize since 2015. In the case of Huniepop, the uncensor patch is a tiny flipped bit and Steam CDNs shipped the porn content that gets activated with it for years and everyone's aware of this (akin to "Hot Coffee"), unlike the sudden "no theres no porn" claims to defend it after the notice.

If Steam, a US-based storefront, were to actually allow the sale of pornographic games uncensored, they'd have to require legal ID for each purchase for the buyer and/or the gift recipient. It would have to become a specialty 'novelty' store that no big publisher will want to do business with. The fact they didn't do any regulation regarding the sales of Hatred just showcases Valve's laziness.

It had it coming. Something had to give sooner or later. The fact it had to be a moral panic group to blame accelerating it for a few select games because their religious beliefs against lesbianism doesn't really make a difference.

The "censorship" could be witnessed as early as Sin Episodes' version of SiN. It's nothing new.

[Chris]

Both methods have the risk of something going wrong. Physical copies take physical space. Sooner or later that starts to be a heavy burden.

Even then, it would only apply to games you don't have installed. When a game is installed, all its needed data is on your system so there's no need to have the install media. But Valve still requires online access just to play a game you've already installed.

Plus, this is why I find GOG far superior. Sure, you can avoid keeping a physical copy of the installer so it remains on GOG's system space, and you can access the installer as long as you have access to your GOG account similar to Steam. Or you can keep a copy of the installer on your own backup. The choice is completely up to you, you're not forced to use the method you don't want, and you can change your mind whenever you want.

And unless you do some shady business or something against the ToS, Valve declining access to your account for shits and giggles sounds like basic propaganda to me. In other words, post some source of people actually losing access for no good reason.

Lost access because someone else was contesting it.
Lost account for supposed TOS violation, but Valve wouldn't say what terms were violated.
Lost access because of an upgraded computer, and not having the same ISP (email address) and credit card as 5 years prior.
I can certainly find more. Reasons don't have to be you violating the TOS, they can include suspicious activity (hacking) by a third-party, a computer glitch/bug that marks your account as in violation despite doing nothing wrong, or not having the same system and email. Or heck, maybe you did do something wrong -- an honest mistake because you didn't perfectly understand every condition in a lawyered-up TOS that us mere mortals can't understand. But ultimately the point is, you don't have control of it. Valve can decide to do whatever they want, and it's up to you to convince them otherwise. And even then, they don't have to answer to you. They only have to do what the law tells them or risk a fine (i.e. a slap on the wrist).

[Chris]

That situation's unfortunately blown out of proportion as some kind of "censorship" exodus.

Steam's always disallowed porn.

It's a bit more than that. Many of the games didn't include porn. The games may have been lewd, but many of them didn't include visible genitalia or even implied sex. In some cases, the developers even asked Valve and were told they were okay when they were initially put up, but recently got banned all the same.

Meanwhile games like The Witcher 3, which has explicit nudity and multiple full-on sex scenes, get by just fine.

Only earlier this year they've began to put their foot down on developers providing uncensor patches, considering every game gets a gamehub with uploaded screenshots from the games, you easily can see where this leads to - steamcommunity being a hub to host porn.

Then take down adult-rated screenshots. As long as what's on Steam itself follows the appropriate guidelines, why should Valve care what's available outside of Steam? If I take a screenshot of Oblivion with a nude mod installed and put it on Steam, should that mean Oblivion should be removed from Steam? No, just that screenshot should be since it's not representative of what Steam sells.

That would require Valve to actually monitor and do something to clean up their own service, though. Better to just take a wide brush to certain kinds of games that get a bad rap anyway.

Many players of the games are aware of this and do this to "spite" certain groups of people they don't like, which doesn't help matters.

Or perhaps the developers are trying to find ways to appease both Valve's policies and their adult customers. I seriously doubt many games include adult content just to "spite" certain groups. They likely include adult content because they wanted to make a game that includes adult content and sell it to adults, and since Steam is such a juggernaut of a store front and the only real way to reach a decently-sized audience, they make a watered-down-but-functional version of the game to sell on Steam that abides by Valve's policies.

Similarly, I doubt many gamers are going to buy adult games just to spite certain groups. They were likely going to buy it anyway because they wanted an adult-themed game.

That a non-Steam site has mods/patches to enable adult content should be of no consequence as long as it's not on Steam.

In the case of Huniepop, the uncensor patch is a tiny flipped bit and Steam CDNs shipped the porn content that gets activated with it for years and everyone's aware of this (akin to "Hot Coffee"), unlike the sudden "no theres no porn" claims to defend it after the notice.

While I agree that Valve has every right to remove a game the includes such content in the files it distributes, this more aptly points to the problem of Valve's complete lack of curation of its own store. Valve doesn't even try to see what the content is that they're distributing. The fact that Steam doesn't realize it's distributing a game that doesn't include an executable (or a game that is literally empty), its their complete lack of curation that should be the topic of discussion. But instead, it's the Bad Porn Game Ban everyone's talking about.

[insightguy]

I was gonna rebutt lei, but chris pretty much summed it up for me.

I'm more concerned the fact that they can't apply their standards for curation properly, This kinda proved it for me.

Also, changed the title due to the thread taking a massive turn in topic

[Graf Zahl]

Even then, it would only apply to games you don't have installed. When a game is installed, all its needed data is on your system so there's no need to have the install media. But Valve still requires online access just to play a game you've already installed.
[/quote]

I tend to keep backups of my games on services where I own the account (normally as fully encrypted 7z's so nobody can look in and decide that the contents are inappropriate.)

Plus, this is why I find GOG far superior. Sure, you can avoid keeping a physical copy of the installer so it remains on GOG's system space, and you can access the installer as long as you have access to your GOG account similar to Steam. Or you can keep a copy of the installer on your own backup. The choice is completely up to you, you're not forced to use the method you don't want, and you can change your mind whenever you want.

Even with GOG I wouldn't depend on that. Nobody can say for sure if they have to take down some game for whatever reason, and if that happens, I'd like to have a working backup at my disposal.