"Nostalgia Pandering" - Does it ruin games for you?

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Re: "Nostalgia Pandering" - Does it ruin games for you?

Postby Kinsie » Wed May 30, 2018 2:10 am

Amuscaria wrote:And seeing it's done by a single guy (aside from the music)
There's a bunch of other people involved adding mod support etc., but the moment the idea of models that don't look like a really bad Quake 1 TC from 1996 is raised those are all forgotten and it's suddenly a one-man band again.
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Re: "Nostalgia Pandering" - Does it ruin games for you?

Postby Jaxxoon R » Wed May 30, 2018 3:57 am

Huh, wouldn't think the fanbase for an ancient game would be such sticklers for graphics. I honestly really like Dusk's atmosphere and visuals, I just think the music is awful. Mushy, annoying, completely against the pacing and tone. It's like the metalmush equivalent of elevator music.
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Re: "Nostalgia Pandering" - Does it ruin games for you?

Postby Arctangent » Wed May 30, 2018 4:17 am

Jaxxoon R wrote:Huh, wouldn't think the fanbase for an ancient game would be such sticklers for graphics.

Despite the fact that there are people who insist that they'd play a game that visually hurts to look at as long as "the gameplay is good" ( despite the fact that the poor graphic design would probably hinder the ability to play it ), graphics are a pretty significant part of not only games in general, but especially what made Doom and Quake and the following monumental games so ... well, monumental. I mean, they were the first of their kind. The thing is that while the vanilla levels don't make great use of them, Doom really does have some pretty great visual assets in both entity sprites and level textures, and while I'll stick to the fact that Quake's models have aged not particularly gracefully, it has such a distinct aesthetic that it's still one of the best-looking games of its era as long as you don't stay in melee range of the monsters for too long. Hell, there's a reason why there's a significant amount of Quake texture use in Doom levels, and it's not ( just ) nostalgia.

I have to wonder how much the "graphics don't matter!!!" camp comes from people who genuinely have played at most one ugly game in their life. Because, even with games that haven't aged gracefully with their graphics, most of the ones that a lot of people have played really do have solid graphics, even if you have to accept the limitations of the era for more than a few of 'em.
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Re: "Nostalgia Pandering" - Does it ruin games for you?

Postby Kinsie » Wed May 30, 2018 4:23 am

Jaxxoon R wrote:Huh, wouldn't think the fanbase for an ancient game would be such sticklers for graphics.
It's extremely possible to do a visual style that resembles classic games without looking awful. Placing Dusk and Ion Maiden on the same pedestal is pretty cruel to poor Cage, I'd say.

Arctangent wrote:I have to wonder how much the "graphics don't matter!!!" camp comes from people who genuinely have played at most one ugly game in their life. Because, even with games that haven't aged gracefully with their graphics, most of the ones that a lot of people have played really do have solid graphics, even if you have to accept the limitations of the era for more than a few of 'em.
The thing is, while graphics aren't the be-all-end-all, they can greatly benefit an already good experience. Super Metroid, to use a favorite example of mine, would have still been pretty good if it looked like an Atari 2600 game, but the superb artwork and visual effects drench it in atmosphere and elevate the experience to a whole new level.

Ditto audio, which is graphics for the ears but discussed considerably less.
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Re: "Nostalgia Pandering" - Does it ruin games for you?

Postby Arctangent » Wed May 30, 2018 4:28 am

Kinsie wrote:Placing Dusk and Ion Maiden on the same pedestal is pretty cruel to poor Cage, I'd say.

Well, let's be entirely fair - Ion Maiden goes a bit beyond the calling of the visual style, because damn if those graphics wouldn't take far too many floppies to install with the "shareware" episode alone.

But then there's REKKR, which is far more restricted in that regard thanks to being stuck with DeHackEd's state limit ...
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Re: "Nostalgia Pandering" - Does it ruin games for you?

Postby scalliano » Wed May 30, 2018 6:32 pm

Arctangent wrote:I have to wonder how much the "graphics don't matter!!!" camp comes from people who genuinely have played at most one ugly game in their life. Because, even with games that haven't aged gracefully with their graphics, most of the ones that a lot of people have played really do have solid graphics, even if you have to accept the limitations of the era for more than a few of 'em.


I started gaming on the Atari 2600 (yes, I'm THAT old :P). While not every game on that system looks like ass, those that do look appealing are very much the exception rather than the rule (homebrew games aside, of course). But I'll still fire up Missile Command, Solaris or Demon Attack any day of the week, because those games are really damn addictive. Hell, when you get right down to it, Missile Command on the 2600 is just a bunch of lines :P
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Re: "Nostalgia Pandering" - Does it ruin games for you?

Postby Arctangent » Wed May 30, 2018 7:27 pm

scalliano wrote:
Arctangent wrote:I have to wonder how much the "graphics don't matter!!!" camp comes from people who genuinely have played at most one ugly game in their life. Because, even with games that haven't aged gracefully with their graphics, most of the ones that a lot of people have played really do have solid graphics, even if you have to accept the limitations of the era for more than a few of 'em.


I started gaming on the Atari 2600 (yes, I'm THAT old :P). While not every game on that system looks like ass, those that do look appealing are very much the exception rather than the rule (homebrew games aside, of course). But I'll still fire up Missile Command, Solaris or Demon Attack any day of the week, because those games are really damn addictive. Hell, when you get right down to it, Missile Command on the 2600 is just a bunch of lines :P

Honestly, I don't think you're giving those games enough credit. While they do wear their age on their sleeve, they still use colors that aren't ugly to look at and put in a lot of work to convey the idea of game objects through their extremely simplistic graphics. They're far from show-stealers, of course, but taking the functional, abstract approach has been proven to be effective since Pong and its literal square that's still recognizable as a ball. Sometimes, you just need to give the human brain a narrative through a name and it'll accept that a circular object is represented by a square.

... As far as Missile Command and Demon Attack go, anyway. I don't know how the heck you're including Solaris among those two, because it does look pretty friggin' good even today.
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Re: "Nostalgia Pandering" - Does it ruin games for you?

Postby scalliano » Thu May 31, 2018 12:15 pm

Er, yeah, brain fart, sorry :P Solaris was a bad example - it's arguably one of the best looking games on the system.
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Re: "Nostalgia Pandering" - Does it ruin games for you?

Postby Amuscaria » Thu May 31, 2018 12:39 pm

Kinsie wrote:
Jaxxoon R wrote:Huh, wouldn't think the fanbase for an ancient game would be such sticklers for graphics.
It's extremely possible to do a visual style that resembles classic games without looking awful. Placing Dusk and Ion Maiden on the same pedestal is pretty cruel to poor Cage, I'd say.


You misunderstand. I made no references to their graphics in respect to each other, merely the games themselves look like a good representation of the "retro" style and is internally consistent in both looks and gameplay. It's blatantly obvious that that Ion Maiden looks way better. Dusk plays damn well, IMO, and the only thing it would need is a higher resolution skins to make the weapons look better.
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