Explaining of games conventions

If it's not ZDoom, it goes here.

Explaining of games conventions

Postby Apeirogon » Sat Apr 14, 2018 1:30 pm

Is there are games which explain, or at least try to explain, its gameplay mechanich?

Like, at example of doom, why throughout entire hell lying undamaged and appropriate by caliber of doomguy guns ammo? What, the all guns exsiting in posessed of humanity in 2145, or when there?, years is pistol, chaingun, rocket launcher and bfg with plasma rifle now have universal caliber?
I understand why it was done, for game balance and "run and gun" system. And because walk through hell only with brass knuckle is a pretty big deal. But still...

Or, why doomguy can pickup 50 rockets, plasmagun, rocket launcher and other stuf, but cant pickup more than 400 bullets for chaingun, if he dont have 50 rockets, plasmagun, rocket launcher and other stuf in his bottomless pocket? And I now not about ammo "inventory.maxamount" property.
And again, I understand why it make so, it can breake map as example. Because sometimes player forced by map to use some type of weapon, like when mapper expects that player kill romero head using rocket launcher. Or when map build as labirynth with a lot of archviles inside of it, and player have only one second to shot it from double barelled shotgun before monster counterattack and using chaingun or pistol only make this section much harder.

Or question unrelated with doom. Why, almost in all action rpg, player can walk in any house on map, without fear that npc in house call guards/attack player/etc.?
Or why character cant wear boot/hat, if it require 15 inteligence/18 dexterity and character have 11 inteligence/15 dexterity? They too stupid/clumsy to dress himself?



And how do you try to explain some gameplay mechanics to yourself?
Like, something inside game which can be reasonably using real world logic.

Like, you kill boar/wolf and it drop some gold coin and some weapon. Of course wolf/boar cant hide weapon inside it stomach or other part of a body. And money can be changed from time when wolf/boar devour it and you can achive some coins of old sample. Or coins can be damaged by digestive system.
In this case I think something like
character managed to kill wolf/boar in such way that its dont damage its pelt, which then they pull off and sell in town to tanner/taxidermist;
he found damaged coins and exchange it in bank/numismatist;
alter ego come in into some bar/saloon/taver/%insert name% and, after pairs cup/mug/jug/%insert name% of %drink name% began to tell everyone history how he, with bare hand, because sword got broke, spear he throw in first several second of battle, knife he forgot in a loaf of bread when cut bread for a sandwich, kill dangerous wolf of first level, for what listeners give him some gold;
and so on;
Apeirogon
I have a strange sense of humour
 
Joined: 12 Jun 2017

Re: Explaining of games conventions

Postby Reactor » Sat Apr 14, 2018 1:54 pm

Hmmmmm. Tough questions indeed, but I'll try to dig up some answers...or something.

Weapons and ammo lying around in Hell: Well, the possessed humans might have taken'em down there. Zombiemen, Shotgun guys and Heavy Chaingun dudes. The Cybie also needs to have some spare rockets here and there, as it has a rocket launcher. Energy cell is also needed for them Arachnotrons. Uh, maybe Cacodemons or Barons of Hell also eat them for a snack.

All weapons have the same caliber: There are 2 weapons which use the same bullet ammunition, and it's not so otherworldy for them to have the same caliber. As for plasma rifle and BFG, they were probably designed modularly, so energy cells can fit inside both.

Doomguy collects huge amounts of ammo: That's not so surprising. Remember B.J. Blazkowicz? He could collect octo-decillion tons of Nazi treasure! And since B.J. was a relative of Doomguy, I'm guessing it's sort of a family superpower. Commander Keen could also collect a truckload of candy wherever he roams.
Another explaination may be they have a small portable WinZip with them, and when they collect ammo, they immediately compress'em with their WinZip, so more can fit inside their pocket or backpack.
A third possibility is that when they collect something, an inter-dimensional transmitter wormhole opens right where the ammo is (this causes the greenish hue blinking), and the collected stuff travels thru the entire universe to finally arrive to the Sanctuary of Stolen Goods!

Why people can enter houses without fear: This is not true in every case. There are plenty of games with even more plenty (is this grammatically correct?) instances where enemies hide themselves inside the house, waiting for an ambush. During that time, they're probably sleeping, playing with their SmartPhone, listen to the level's background music (because enemies DO hear the level music) and so on. Also, these games' storyline usually concerns some kind of cataclysmic event or distaster, which results in little to no civilians present on any of these houses. Even Return to castle Wolfenstein doesn't feature more than 3 civilian characters, and if you kill'em, you immediately lose. In other games, killing civilians is highly rewarding.

Character can't wear this and that with low stats: I guess those particular dress pieces require more intelligence to wear. Maybe they have a special wear mechanism, other than zips or buckles, which requires higher dexterity and intelligence.

Animals dropping gold or weapon is a simple bug, a design flaw if you may. It's pretty funny tho! :D
User avatar
Reactor
The militarist
 
Joined: 03 Feb 2011
Location: Island's Beauty, Hungary

Re: Explaining of games conventions

Postby Apeirogon » Sat Apr 14, 2018 2:21 pm

I mainly ask this because half hours ago I play, and delete, evil within. If some one became interested on this game, dont buy it. Do not be fooled by "Created by Shinji Mikami, creator of Resident Evil" Seriously, it have SO MUCH flaws that....I dont know how describe it.
In this game you play as detective from police, who fight against zombie.

Frist thing, in this game you, detective from police, place where constantly check physical state of its employees, can run only when it have full stamina. You know how long this for a time? Three second. ONLY three seconds. You know what happens when you run out of this three second?! Detective, from police, place where constantly check physical state of its employees, will begin to suffocate from shortness of breath. And while he try catch breath he COMPLETELY dont move and stand at one place. This takes five seconds.
And the the most ridiculous, if you run this 3+5=8 second with normal speed, without sprint, you run much further.

Second, in this game defeated zombie can resurrect. To prevent this you can burn bodies of zombie. You use matches for this. Similar matches, which you can buy in any magaine 100 pieces in one box.
You know how much mathes you can carry in one moment?! You ready? Ready? Five matches. ONLY FIVE MATCHES. And this in the same moment when you can carry crossbow, pistol, shotgun, rifle, grenade and ammo for this. Even I can carry much more matches in the same moment. That matches in game made from plutonium and one match weighs 5 kilogramm?

Third, in this game you can wear axe. Only one axe. You can throw this axe to zombie to instakill it. Sounds good right?! This axe is one time use, after throwing its breaks.
Axe, thing which made from wooden stick and piece of iron, breaks after it hit zombie, which body much more softhen than wooden stick and iron piece. Why...

And this is just tip of the iceberg. And it will only get worse the more you play it. I even have feeling that its japanese mass effect anrdomeda. But it came out before MA:Andromeda.


So, after all this I begin to think that I dont understand something. Because people which recomended to me this game describe it as "Super game!!! new horror, new word in game developing!!! Monumental work for ages!!!!"
Apeirogon
I have a strange sense of humour
 
Joined: 12 Jun 2017

Re: Explaining of games conventions

Postby wildweasel » Sat Apr 14, 2018 2:29 pm

If you wonder how he eats and breathes
And other science facts
Repeat to yourself, "It's just a show,
I should really just relax."

--Mystery Science Theater 3000
User avatar
wildweasel
I love the smell of sourdough in the morning
 
Joined: 15 Jul 2003
Location: avatar by kurashiki

Re: Explaining of games conventions

Postby Apeirogon » Sat Apr 14, 2018 2:32 pm

Reactor wrote:Hmmmmm. Tough questions indeed, but I'll try to dig up some answers...or something.

Weapons and ammo lying around in Hell: Well, the possessed humans might have taken'em down there. Zombiemen, Shotgun guys and Heavy Chaingun dudes. The Cybie also needs to have some spare rockets here and there, as it has a rocket launcher. Energy cell is also needed for them Arachnotrons. Uh, maybe Cacodemons or Barons of Hell also eat them for a snack.

All weapons have the same caliber: There are 2 weapons which use the same bullet ammunition, and it's not so otherworldy for them to have the same caliber. As for plasma rifle and BFG, they were probably designed modularly, so energy cells can fit inside both.

Doomguy collects huge amounts of ammo: That's not so surprising. Remember B.J. Blazkowicz? He could collect octo-decillion tons of Nazi treasure! And since B.J. was a relative of Doomguy, I'm guessing it's sort of a family superpower. Commander Keen could also collect a truckload of candy wherever he roams.
Another explaination may be they have a small portable WinZip with them, and when they collect ammo, they immediately compress'em with their WinZip, so more can fit inside their pocket or backpack.
A third possibility is that when they collect something, an inter-dimensional transmitter wormhole opens right where the ammo is (this causes the greenish hue blinking), and the collected stuff travels thru the entire universe to finally arrive to the Sanctuary of Stolen Goods!

Why people can enter houses without fear: This is not true in every case. There are plenty of games with even more plenty (is this grammatically correct?) instances where enemies hide themselves inside the house, waiting for an ambush. During that time, they're probably sleeping, playing with their SmartPhone, listen to the level's background music (because enemies DO hear the level music) and so on. Also, these games' storyline usually concerns some kind of cataclysmic event or distaster, which results in little to no civilians present on any of these houses. Even Return to castle Wolfenstein doesn't feature more than 3 civilian characters, and if you kill'em, you immediately lose. In other games, killing civilians is highly rewarding.

Character can't wear this and that with low stats: I guess those particular dress pieces require more intelligence to wear. Maybe they have a special wear mechanism, other than zips or buckles, which requires higher dexterity and intelligence.

Animals dropping gold or weapon is a simple bug, a design flaw if you may. It's pretty funny tho! :D


Not bad, but I mean more or less realistic explanation.
Apeirogon
I have a strange sense of humour
 
Joined: 12 Jun 2017

Re: Explaining of games conventions

Postby NeuralStunner » Sat Apr 14, 2018 4:54 pm

If you want a game that adheres to the laws of reality, join a sports team. :P
User avatar
NeuralStunner
THE WORLD HAS BECOME A PLACE
 
 
 
Joined: 21 Jul 2009
Location: traveling around inside a hug

Re: Explaining of games conventions

Postby RexS » Sat Apr 14, 2018 7:11 pm

It's just a game. They refer to magazines as "clips", the rifles, pistols, AND chaingun all use the same pistol bullet, and changing to a double barrel shotgun changes the shell type that you are firing (it has more pellets per shell, it isn't just "double" the single barrel shotgun like it is supposed to be.)

I mean, I like some realism in games sometimes, too, but sometimes you just need to wreck some demons in a science-fiction horror game. Even in classics like Doom.
User avatar
RexS
 
Joined: 21 Aug 2013

Re: Explaining of games conventions

Postby Reactor » Sat Apr 14, 2018 7:31 pm

It's pretty funny that Apeirogon muses about how can a pistol and a chaingun use the same bullets, or how come there are rockets and energy cells scattered about in Hell, but never actually wonders how can Hell and evil demons exist :D
User avatar
Reactor
The militarist
 
Joined: 03 Feb 2011
Location: Island's Beauty, Hungary

Re: Explaining of games conventions

Postby insightguy » Sat Apr 14, 2018 9:41 pm

Well games conventions are gaming marketing events that take place in a fixed area normally in... Wait a second.

I know games that manage to explain this with a little lampshade gaming, like how doom 3 and 4 explains the chainsaw as a shipping mistake and splinter cell's pretense of NATO ammo as a sort of black market mix up that the person writing the entry even states he did not know that was possible and things.

wildweasel wrote:
If you wonder how he eats and breathes
And other science facts
Repeat to yourself, "It's just a show,
I should really just relax."

--Mystery Science Theater 3000


Honestly, most people don't think beyond the first question. If you just say something like "the air here acts like oxygen and food at the same time" then most people would just go along with it because sci-fi, like how we can accept FTL or laser guns. "Laserguns fire lasers because prisms can make lasers" " oh ok"
User avatar
insightguy
^HEY! My avatar is up there^
 
Joined: 23 Mar 2011

Re: Explaining of games conventions

Postby 0mrcynic0 » Sun Apr 15, 2018 11:15 pm

There's a reason why video games are usually make-believe.

It would be better if such things shouldn't be taken seriously, you might not be able to sleep because of that.
User avatar
0mrcynic0
Deliciously shiny
 
Joined: 05 Sep 2017
Location: The corner of "screw off" and "none of your business."

Re: Explaining of games conventions

Postby Apeirogon » Mon Apr 16, 2018 11:21 am

NeuralStunner wrote:If you want a game that adheres to the laws of reality, join a sports team. :P

RexS wrote:It's just a game. They refer to magazines as "clips", the rifles, pistols, AND chaingun all use the same pistol bullet, and changing to a double barrel shotgun changes the shell type that you are firing (it has more pellets per shell, it isn't just "double" the single barrel shotgun like it is supposed to be.)

I mean, I like some realism in games sometimes, too, but sometimes you just need to wreck some demons in a science-fiction horror game. Even in classics like Doom.


I just say "dont make game where some part of it looks stupid, in compare to all other game".
Example, in common WW 2 shooter you have arsenal from luger, mauser, sgt 44, mg 42, panzerschreck and grenade m 24. If you replace panzerschreck by pony which shoot rainbow from its ass, with flying in all direction confetti on impact/explode, but left all technical informations (amount of ammo, damage, splash radius/damage, etc.) from panzerschreck, game start to look stupid.


Reactor wrote:It's pretty funny that Apeirogon muses about how can a pistol and a chaingun use the same bullets, or how come there are rockets and energy cells scattered about in Hell, but never actually wonders how can Hell and evil demons exist :D


Plot of doom 1/2/3/4 build around assumptions "science conduct experiments with teleportations and accidentally open portal to hell/parallel dimension/%insert name%". Assumptions in plot is okay, mainly because all story build around such assumptions "graph dracula was a vampire / some scientist try to play god and create monster / etc".


0mrcynic0 wrote:There's a reason why video games are usually make-believe.

It would be better if such things shouldn't be taken seriously, you might not be able to sleep because of that.


Game is a art...in some way. So they must give some emotions and thoughts to player.
Apeirogon
I have a strange sense of humour
 
Joined: 12 Jun 2017

Re: Explaining of games conventions

Postby Matt » Mon Apr 16, 2018 4:45 pm

Reactor wrote:It's pretty funny that Apeirogon muses about how can a pistol and a chaingun use the same bullets, or how come there are rockets and energy cells scattered about in Hell, but never actually wonders how can Hell and evil demons exist :D

Or why they would ever bother staging the sort of attack we see in Doom when tempting us with political outrage, porn and other mind-numbing bullshit has worked so well... did they get bored or something?

He complained in no way of the evil reputation under which he lived, indeed, all over the world, and he assured me that he himself was of all living beings the most interested in the destruction of Superstition, and he avowed to me that he had been afraid, relatively as to his proper power, once only, and that was on the day when he had heard a preacher, more subtle than the rest of the human herd, cry in his pulpit: "My dear brethren, do not ever forget, when you hear the progress of lights praised, that the loveliest trick of the Devil is to persuade you that he does not exist!"



Apeirogon wrote:Plot of doom 1/2/3/4 build around assumptions "science conduct experiments with teleportations and accidentally open portal to hell/parallel dimension/%insert name%". Assumptions in plot is okay, mainly because all story build around such assumptions "graph dracula was a vampire / some scientist try to play god and create monster / etc".
This.

I remember someone posited a rule for writing sci-fi that you should aim for one(1) future tech thing that is handwaved away, and the rest should be faithful and plausible. Monsters and undead are one thing, but why an able-bodied grown man of ordinary intelligence is absolutely unable to carry more than 5 toothpick-sized units of a very useful resource is something else entirely.


EDIT: Suspension of disbelief and plausible extrapolation of real-life common sense are also important ways to let the player learn and understand the rules of the game. I haven't developed this explanation so I didn't include it when I first posted this, but then I saw another thread a much better way of putting it:
GAA1992 wrote:moon physics that could fuck the match
User avatar
Matt
Putting the XD into *xdeath since 2007
 
 
 
Joined: 04 Jan 2004
Location: Gotham City SAR, Wyld-Lands of the Lotus People, Dominionist PetroConfederacy of Saudi Canadia

Re: Explaining of games conventions

Postby Reactor » Mon Apr 16, 2018 9:04 pm

Well...they probably got bored with Satan's original evil-influental technics...I mean, they brought tons of powerful and scarry monsters to life down there, and either Hell was getting full of them, or they simply wanted to have a little fun and show-off in our world. Or maybe this was their vacation - a not-so tender trip on Phobos, Deimos and Earth. Even evil demons can have fun sometimes! :D
Admit it - if you were a big mean Cyberdemon with a rocket launcher, after a while, it kinda sucks you cannot use that weapon on anyone!
User avatar
Reactor
The militarist
 
Joined: 03 Feb 2011
Location: Island's Beauty, Hungary


Return to Off-Topic

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest