Linux is not actually newbie-friendly

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Linux is not actually newbie-friendly

Postby ramon.dexter » Sat Mar 10, 2018 2:50 am

warman2012 wrote:How would I go about getting it off that website and actually making it work?


Thats the main issue of newbies coming to linux. You need to get rid of your windows habits in order to function on linux. Habits like manually downloading software from websites. Linux has a more sophisticated approach - its called repositories, where all software is stored for download.
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Re: GZDoom Installation for Linux Mint 18.3 [split]

Postby Rachael » Sat Mar 10, 2018 5:22 am

I split this out because this is an opinion piece that ultimately has no place in a "help me please!" topic.
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Re: Linux is not actually newbie-friendly

Postby DoomRater » Sat Mar 10, 2018 9:11 am

That approach would work in Windows if Windows came with a compiler of some sort!
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Re: Linux is not actually newbie-friendly

Postby wolfmanfp » Sat Mar 10, 2018 11:19 am

Some of the Linux packages contain binaries only, so a compiler isn't necessary.
Also, there are package managers for Windows indeed, for example Chocolatey and Scoop.
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Re: Linux is not actually newbie-friendly

Postby Graf Zahl » Sat Mar 10, 2018 12:03 pm

ramon.dexter wrote:its called repositories, where all software is stored for download.



Yeah, unless you need some software that ISN'T in the repository. I have seen people who just threw up their arms in despair, having no idea what to do next.
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Re: Linux is not actually newbie-friendly

Postby Rachael » Sat Mar 10, 2018 12:12 pm

Packages are often provided for most Debian-based and Red Hat-based systems, and they usually work with all systems. Even for the more unusual systems, there are converters that work, or they may have a native installer anyhow.
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Re: Linux is not actually newbie-friendly

Postby Graf Zahl » Sat Mar 10, 2018 12:19 pm

Correct, but that wasn't what I was talking about. It was that blanket statement that "all software comes from repositories". Say "most common software" and it's correct, but 'all'? No chance.

That said, I had to install some very special stuff on the Linux VM of my work system and it normally was a pain in the ass to get stuff running without those helping hands from the package managers. In those moments dependency hell can truly strike.
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Re: Linux is not actually newbie-friendly

Postby Rachael » Sat Mar 10, 2018 1:06 pm

Agreed. For any Linux/BSD system I use I will always search the repos first for my desired software - but it is not always available and in other instances I will resort to other means of acquiring software. (Usually I just compile it if I have that option because it's the most painless way)
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Re: Linux is not actually newbie-friendly

Postby ibm5155 » Sat Mar 10, 2018 1:37 pm

ramon.dexter wrote:
warman2012 wrote:How would I go about getting it off that website and actually making it work?


Thats the main issue of newbies coming to linux. You need to get rid of your windows habits in order to function on linux. Habits like manually downloading software from websites. Linux has a more sophisticated approach - its called repositories, where all software is stored for download.


And Windows now have a proper store with one clicky button you install your software, the software will not mess with your system neither registers and plus, a single simple uninstall clicky boy.

Yeah yeah ubuntu has an app store, but who uses it?
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Re: Linux is not actually newbie-friendly

Postby Graf Zahl » Sat Mar 10, 2018 2:04 pm

Too bad that the requirement for the Windows store can be summarized as "Only shit allowed". (Shit meaning UWP, for those who don't get it.)
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Re: Linux is not actually newbie-friendly

Postby Caligari87 » Sat Mar 10, 2018 2:18 pm

Ubuntu's "app store" is just a fancy skin on top of the normal repos (plus snaps and flatpack if those are more your speed)

8-)
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Re: Linux is not actually newbie-friendly

Postby ibm5155 » Sun Mar 11, 2018 7:31 am

Graf Zahl wrote:Too bad that the requirement for the Windows store can be summarized as "Only shit allowed". (Shit meaning UWP, for those who don't get it.)


Wrong, see examples below

https://www.microsoft.com/store/productId/9NBLGGH4RSD8
https://www.microsoft.com/store/productId/9NBLGGH4XJNN
https://www.microsoft.com/store/productId/9NBLGGH4T892
https://www.microsoft.com/store/apps/9nblggh4trbv
https://www.microsoft.com/store/productId/9NBLGGH4RP6Z
...
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Re: Linux is not actually newbie-friendly

Postby wolfmanfp » Sun Mar 11, 2018 11:02 am

ibm5155 wrote:
Graf Zahl wrote:Too bad that the requirement for the Windows store can be summarized as "Only shit allowed". (Shit meaning UWP, for those who don't get it.)


Wrong, see examples below

https://www.microsoft.com/store/productId/9NBLGGH4RSD8
https://www.microsoft.com/store/productId/9NBLGGH4XJNN
https://www.microsoft.com/store/productId/9NBLGGH4T892
https://www.microsoft.com/store/apps/9nblggh4trbv
https://www.microsoft.com/store/productId/9NBLGGH4RP6Z
...

Yeah, they allow Win32 applications, BUT these applications have to be wrapped into UWP first.
https://developer.microsoft.com/en-us/w ... es/desktop
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Re: Linux is not actually newbie-friendly

Postby R4L » Mon Mar 12, 2018 7:21 am

Graf Zahl wrote:
ramon.dexter wrote:its called repositories, where all software is stored for download.



Yeah, unless you need some software that ISN'T in the repository. I have seen people who just threw up their arms in despair, having no idea what to do next.


That's me!

My main problem with the linux distros I've used is getting drivers. I put Mint on my HP Stream 11, which has broadcom wireless drivers. Since there is no ethernet port, I had no way to get online with it. Then I found out that broadcom doesn't just give out firmware for their chips. They literally don't allow it, so I had to follow this guide to basically make my own firmware for it.

On top of that, the fact that I cannot just move a file in the GUI to anywhere else other than my home folder because of permissions, makes me pretty frustrated.
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Re: Linux is not actually newbie-friendly

Postby ramon.dexter » Mon Mar 12, 2018 9:37 am

R4L wrote:
On top of that, the fact that I cannot just move a file in the GUI to anywhere else other than my home folder because of permissions, makes me pretty frustrated.


Yeah, one of bad habits from windows based system. Actually, the linux way is much better - why you want to allow user to put files ANYWHERE? That makes mess, also user has to be treated like total BFU with zero knowledge in computers - with this, the limitation to home folder makes sense, because the user cannot make a mess.

The only thing you have to wrap around is that you home folder = C: in windows systems. Nothing more and nothing less.

come on, linux is not that complicated - all tutorials and everything is in english. Look to it from the other side - I'm not native english speaker, so I have to translate it prior to reading it.

When today I wanted to test some features on gzdoom devbuild, I ended with compiling everything from source, because you cannot download precompiled devbuild for linux. And I was successfull. So I can advise only one thing - do not trow it away when problems come, but chew through the problems.
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