Questions about weapons

[Reactor]

I'm not sure if this is the right place for this topic. If you feel it isn't, feel free to move it to the appropiate segment of the forum.
I would have a handful of questions about weapons in general. Some of them concerns computer games alright, some of them are just mildly related. They can be relevant to modding or realism, so they may be useful to other forum members as well.

- My first question is about shotgun and riot gun. What is the key difference between them? I found out that they pretty much look the same in-game, except the riot gun looks bulklier and bigger, and its ammo is called "cartridges" instead of "shells". Maybe it's a high caliber shotty? It also appears to be an older model, as modern games do not utilize riot guns anymore, but shotguns instead. Is it some kind of old-fashioned shotgun maybe?

- What's the difference between rockets, missiles and torpedos? From what I undestand, torpedos are mostly space/underwater armaments, but rockets and missiles can be pretty much synonims in terms of weapons. And yes, I know that in science, there is no such thing as "missile science", but "rocket science", this is why I emphasized that I'm talking about weapons here. Since Dune 2, missiles and rockets can be pretty much the same - a "Rocket tank" is pretty much the same as a "Missile tank", so I don't really know what's the major difference here.

- Grenades are often called "frag grenades", which I surmise, is a short term for "fragmentation" (so AFAIK it is unrelated to the "frag" meaning of killing someone), but none of these grenades spit fragments around. In fact, they're a distinct grenade type, called "cluster grenade" or "cluster bomb". Any thoughts on this?

- Which is better in games when symbolizing the weapons (and remaining ammo) on the HUD? Small pictograms, like Half-life did, silhouettes (Wolf3D), minuscule versions of the weapons themselves (Gods), writing out their name, or simply numbers? Quite frankly, I found the original Doom HUD pretty minimalist in this sense, but I understand they had limited space so they could not display all guns in full glory. In my personalized HUD, I'd have the possibility for all of the abovementioned methods, I just do not know which one is preferred. This is important in aesthetics, we really desire to know.

- Is it possible in GZDoom to program a single fire/dual fire/fire linked function using the "secondary fire" key? There are some mods which feature double-wielded weapons, let it be twin pistols, or Duke Nukem's Devastator Gun, it would be cool to be able to switch fire mode using the "secondary fire" button. Return to castle Wolfenstein featured this with the Colt, and even though I used the Tommy gun instead, I still found it amazing.

- Not really weapon-related, but equipment-related: What's the difference between nightvision goggles and IR goggles? I see that games often use them as synonyms, but neither could actually illuminate the area, just show the enemy in the dark (so ye, the Doom's Light amplificator visor is still the best!!!)

[wildweasel]

- My first question is about shotgun and riot gun. What is the key difference between them? I found out that they pretty much look the same in-game, except the riot gun looks bulklier and bigger, and its ammo is called "cartridges" instead of "shells". Maybe it's a high caliber shotty? It also appears to be an older model, as modern games do not utilize riot guns anymore, but shotguns instead. Is it some kind of old-fashioned shotgun maybe?

These are all technically the same - there are not an awful lot of standardized uses of these terms. "Cartridge" tends to be an all-encompassing term for "the whole bullet" (i.e. casing, primer, powder, and payload), while "shell" is generally more specifically for shotguns and artillery. As for the difference between "shotgun" and "riotgun", while again, there's not a standardized usage of them, weapons that tend to be used for less-lethal payloads like rubber batons or beanbags can be referred to as "riotguns." A major example would be the Russian-made KS-23, which is a pump-action shotgun chambered for an absolutely massive 4-gauge shell (remember, lower gauge means larger shell, generally) - these are not generally loaded with shot or slugs, though, since they were primarily issued to prison guards for purposes of containing prison riots, if my information is correct.

- Grenades are often called "frag grenades", which I surmise, is a short term for "fragmentation" (so AFAIK it is unrelated to the "frag" meaning of killing someone), but none of these grenades spit fragments around. In fact, they're a distinct grenade type, called "cluster grenade" or "cluster bomb". Any thoughts on this?

A "fragmentation" grenade's primary source of damage is that its casing - iron or steel, usually - is designed to break apart when its explosive charge goes off, causing hundreds of tiny fragments of shrapnel to fly everywhere. A lot of video game grenades are of the High Explosive variety, which still produce fragments, but are designed to have a much greater concussive force in their explosions. "Cluster bombs" - generally restricted to aerial bombardment, as cluster grenades are largely a video game thing - are contained in a single casing, but break apart in mid-air on the way down into a wider group of smaller charges. They're generally dropped in large amounts during aerial carpet-bombing runs, and aren't meant for precise damage, but a very spread out, chaotic kind of damage.

[Trance]

What's the difference between rockets, missiles and torpedos?

In a weapons context, missiles are a subset of rockets. If a rocket has a guidance system, whether it's self-guided or guided manually by a human operator, it's a missile.

A torpedo is similar to a missile, but designed to operate entirely within an underwater regime. With a few exceptions, torpedoes don't use rocket engines for propulsion.

Which is better in games when symbolizing the weapons (and remaining ammo) on the HUD? Small pictograms, like Half-life did, silhouettes (Wolf3D), minuscule versions of the weapons themselves (Gods), writing out their name, or simply numbers?

Entirely a matter of your own personal choice. Several different approaches in various games have worked fine. I can't see one being better than the other. Just make sure it doesn't get in the way or look weird compared to the rest of the HUD, and you're golden.

What's the difference between nightvision goggles and IR goggles?

IR goggles are most likely using thermal imaging technology, which is a subset of night vision technology. Thermal imaging picks up the EM radiation given off by the heat emission of objects, living or nonliving, to generate a picture. This radiation is mostly given off in the low to mid-frequency infrared range. It works well for identifying camouflaged human targets due to how much warmer we tend to be compared to our environment, but all it can show you is a set of colored splotches in the shape of a human. With a few recent technological exceptions, it is very hard to identify who exactly you're looking at by IR imaging alone, especially from a distance. Thermal imaging is a good tool for a handful of situations, but it's far from all-purpose.

What would be considered the "iconic" subset of night vision technology would be image intensifiers. Those are the devices that give you that funky green picture when you look through them. They actually operate in the visible light range and the upper reaches of the infrared range, and they just multiply the number of photons that they receive. The brightness of something is down to photon density, after all, so the way to make an image brighter is to increase the total number of photons representing the image.

[ramon.dexter]

- Not really weapon-related, but equipment-related: What's the difference between nightvision goggles and IR goggles? I see that games often use them as synonyms, but neither could actually illuminate the area, just show the enemy in the dark (so ye, the Doom's Light amplificator visor is still the best!!!)

How could you call yourself militarist, when your knowledge of weapons is nearing zero

Anyways, IR goggles ARE nightvision goggles. You see, there two types of night vision - the IR one and the heat one. The IR one is more widespread, and uses IR cpapable sensors and IR lights to illuminate the area. It also can amplify the remaining light.
The heat one is nto a night vision,technically. It could see in completely dark areas, but practical use is nearing zero }no, predator is not a practical use).

[Reactor]

Hehe partially you're right...I still have much to learn. Well I'm mildly ashamed of meself indeed, just as I was at the gaming cliché topics where I had common misconceptions about a nuclear reactor despite my name life is full of surprises!

For some reason, I had the impression that the riot gun ought to be that funny-looking old-fashioned shotgun with the trumpet-like barrel. You remember...it's still "used" in cartoons. Well apparently, shotgun and riot gun are more or less the same. It was also pretty good to hear the difference between frag and cluster grenades. Yes, PC games tend to deviate from reality in aspect of explosives, so the frag grenade is a cluster grenade in real life.
The missile-rocket distinction was a bit harder, especially if we look at several games which even utilize mini-versions of warheads - like minirockets, mini-missiles, so this was pretty confusing. The distinction by the guidance system is however, a useful tip And the difference between nightvision and IR was also very good. It is notable how PC games tend to generalize such things and they work differently than in real life. These answers were great, I appreciate them

[Naniyue]

SURPRISE! I've seen plenty of real guns, but never fired one in my entire life! I like them in games, but such power over life and death in my own hands scares me!

Anyway, I've always felt that the shotguns in DooM were unrealistic in terms of their striking distance. I thought shotguns were more of a close range type of weapon. Am I wrong?

[Reactor]

Well...I er...those are future shotguns, I guess

There is another question about sonic weapons. Yes, game logic as usual. Most games portray sonic-blasta guns to sneer thru all targets until the sonic waves hit concrete. Much like Railgun. I don't know how close this thing to realism is

[wildweasel]

Anyway, I've always felt that the shotguns in DooM were unrealistic in terms of their striking distance. I thought shotguns were more of a close range type of weapon. Am I wrong?

Real shotguns are surprisingly accurate, up to around 50 meters before the spread is wide enough to cause a noticeable reduction in damage.

[Arctangent]

For some reason, I had the impression that the riot gun ought to be that funny-looking old-fashioned shotgun with the trumpet-like barrel.

Those're blunderbuss - an early muzzle-loaded firearm that had a flared muzzle to make it easier to load. The flaring is a lot less dramatic than you'd see in cartoons, but it's still the most distinctive feature of a blunderbuss.

[Trance]

Real shotguns are surprisingly accurate, up to around 50 meters before the spread is wide enough to cause a noticeable reduction in damage.

Although the one pellet that always goes exactly where you aim it no matter the distance is definitely not how shotguns do things.

Nor is the completely lateral spread.

[Reactor]

Well, the Doom shotgun's spread is always horizontal, no matter what. A real life shotgun's spread is probably all-direction. I never found this feature of the shotgun overly too bad, in fact, it made the shotty useful for even greater distances. The super shotgun, on the other hand, had an all-direction spread, and was much less accurate for greater distances.

Blunderbuss - I never heard this word before Now I know what are those old-fashioned boomsticks are called.

[Trance]

Well, the Doom shotgun's spread is always horizontal, no matter what.

Yes. That's... what I said.

[wrkq]

Anyways, IR goggles ARE nightvision goggles. You see, there two types of night vision - the IR one and the heat one. The IR one is more widespread, and uses IR cpapable sensors and IR lights to illuminate the area. It also can amplify the remaining light.
The heat one is nto a night vision,technically. It could see in completely dark areas, but practical use is nearing zero }no, predator is not a practical use).

Erm.
Heat /is/ IR (i.e. infrared).

You have:

* "passive night vision" or "amplified ambient light" systems, which take the little real light that is there (moonlight, reflections from far away, etc) and amplify it very much.
Their sensors operate in wavelength range which covers human-visible light, a bit outside (which some animals can see), and some of infrared range, as summing it all gives you most reflected light to work with.
Your using of such a device cannot be easily detected from afar.


* "active night vision" systems or "IR emitter" systems, where your device contains one or more strong IR lights (thesedays, LEDs).
These are used as an equivalent of a visible-wavelength flashlight/spotlight.
The sensor and visor then shift/translate the reflected IR light into human-visible range so you can see it as a pretty okay/detailed grayscale or greenscale image.
This technology is also very common in night-mode CCTV.

Of course, if you have active IR goggles, you're a shooting duck to anyone else with passive night vision system, just as someone walking with a flashlight on their forehead would be to person without goggles.
Plus there are automated passive infrared detection systems which can trigger an alarm.


* "infrared / heat vision" as in common parlance, FLIR style.
These don't observe reflected light like normal vision and IR night vision.
Instead they have a wide-gamut infrared sensor, calibrated so it can actually spot differences between different temperatures and show them to you as the color gradient.
It's a completely different usage field - and it can't really "see through walls" as Hollywood thinks. Can show which building in general is warmer than ambient though, which's how it's used for spotting grow-houses.
It's also very common and useful in various engineering and maintenance fields - you can for example FLIR-check an electrical cabinet or a mechanical device to see whether a motor or gear or some other component isn't overheating, which may lead to malfunction (or worse).

[Reactor]

These were truly unique information, thank you for all the explainations It is wise to take this knowledge when making a game so it'll seem more realistic. I never thought there are so many people on this forum, who know that much about real-life weaponry - this was really a pleasant surprise. It might be useful for forum readers to distinguish game/Hollywood logic from real life.

All right - my new question about weaponry is fully about in-game properties. Each weapon has its own features and weaknesses, however, I am not sure which ones are top priority features for a gun, which ones you'd use every time in-game as long as you have ammo, and which are the weapons you'd only use if absolutely necessary.
Here are the key properties:

- Accuracy
- Ammunition capacity
- Firepower
- Fire rate
- Reload time

[SouthernLion]

- My first question is about shotgun and riot gun. What is the key difference between them? I found out that they pretty much look the same in-game, except the riot gun looks bulklier and bigger, and its ammo is called "cartridges" instead of "shells". Maybe it's a high caliber shotty? It also appears to be an older model, as modern games do not utilize riot guns anymore, but shotguns instead. Is it some kind of old-fashioned shotgun maybe?

These are all technically the same - there are not an awful lot of standardized uses of these terms. "Cartridge" tends to be an all-encompassing term for "the whole bullet" (i.e. casing, primer, powder, and payload), while "shell" is generally more specifically for shotguns and artillery. As for the difference between "shotgun" and "riotgun", while again, there's not a standardized usage of them, weapons that tend to be used for less-lethal payloads like rubber batons or beanbags can be referred to as "riotguns." A major example would be the Russian-made KS-23, which is a pump-action shotgun chambered for an absolutely massive 4-gauge shell (remember, lower gauge means larger shell, generally) - these are not generally loaded with shot or slugs, though, since they were primarily issued to prison guards for purposes of containing prison riots, if my information is correct.

I own a shotgun that was referred to as a "riot shotgun" because the police in my town use this exact model specifically for riot control (because the choke has a wide spread on this particular barrel, although you can change it.) But, again, this isn't an exact technical name, just like wildweasel was saying.

and its ammo is called "cartridges" instead of "shells".

A shell is a cartridge for a shotgun, generally. A bullet is a cartridge with a single slug designed for a rifled barrel, such as in a pistol or rifle/carbine, (or submachine gun and open-bolt machine gun), generally. A cartridge is just another way of referring to the "whole bullet."

Maybe it's a high caliber shotty?

I just thought I should mention, shotguns are not normally measured in caliber. Caliber is bore diameter in inches, such as .50 caliber being half an inch, .25 caliber being a quarter of an inch, etc. (and of course the metric equivalent in 9mm etc.) This is generally only used for bullets / rifled barrels. Shotguns are measured in gauge, which is how many lead sphere balls the size of the inside of the barrel equal one pound of lead. For example, 12 lead balls the size of the inside of a 12 gauge shotgun = 1 pound. That's why 10 gauge is a bigger shotgun shell than a 12 gauge, although 10 gauge has been largely overshadowed by 12 gauge 3.5" magnum shells in modern usage. The only exception to this rule is the smaller .410 shotgun which IS measured in caliber, but if it was done in traditional gauge it would be 67.62 gauge, or 68 gauge to round.

Also wildweasel is right about the video game shotgun spread being a myth to some degree. They usually hold much tighter patterns than depicted in video games (unless you have a choke specifically designed for early spread.)

wildweasel pretty much said half of what I wanted to, lmao. Good firearm knowledge, brother.