Is the Pistol really worthless?

If it's not ZDoom, it goes here.
User avatar
Matt
Posts: 9696
Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2004 5:37 pm
Preferred Pronouns: They/Them
Operating System Version (Optional): Debian Bullseye
Location: Gotham City SAR, Wyld-Lands of the Lotus People, Dominionist PetroConfederacy of Saudi Canadia
Contact:

Re: Is the Pistol really worthless?

Post by Matt »

For what it's worth, pretty much everything takes place in a place with some significant amount of gravity, at the very least sufficient gravity that there is an absolutely clear, unambiguous up and down! (also consider how torches burn just fine in Doom)

Even then, given the recoil problems with virtually anything that could propel matter in the direction of the enemy with enough force to cause any damage, and that a big burning laser would be hard to scale down to be effective against someone actively moving for cover, presumably one would be trained to shoot only when supported against something. Of course, the locked-on laser could still be of use if someone's caught drifting out in the open, but even then they're probably spinning fast enough that you wouldn't be able to focus on any one point long enough to burn a hole quickly.

Of course, this still creates problems of the recoil not slowing down and requiring a lot more muscle to correct even when you have something massive to brace yourself against, which should militate not in favour of weaker rapid-fire weapons but hard-hitting high-precision weapons (or maybe hard-hitting scattershot or explosive weapons) where you know you won't have time for a second shot. We see that with the (S)SG, rockets and BFG, but then the chaingun and plasma end up making no sense at all.

tl;dr doom chaingun never made any sense
Clocky
Posts: 54
Joined: Sat Oct 22, 2016 6:16 am
Location: Inside a BFG 10K's Energy Cell magazine (Brazil, Rio Grande do Sul, Porto Alegre)

Re: Is the Pistol really worthless?

Post by Clocky »

Vaecrius wrote:For what it's worth, pretty much everything takes place in a place with some significant amount of gravity, at the very least sufficient gravity that there is an absolutely clear, unambiguous up and down! (also consider how torches burn just fine in Doom)

Even then, given the recoil problems with virtually anything that could propel matter in the direction of the enemy with enough force to cause any damage, and that a big burning laser would be hard to scale down to be effective against someone actively moving for cover, presumably one would be trained to shoot only when supported against something. Of course, the locked-on laser could still be of use if someone's caught drifting out in the open, but even then they're probably spinning fast enough that you wouldn't be able to focus on any one point long enough to burn a hole quickly.

Of course, this still creates problems of the recoil not slowing down and requiring a lot more muscle to correct even when you have something massive to brace yourself against, which should militate not in favour of weaker rapid-fire weapons but hard-hitting high-precision weapons (or maybe hard-hitting scattershot or explosive weapons) where you know you won't have time for a second shot. We see that with the (S)SG, rockets and BFG, but then the chaingun and plasma end up making no sense at all.

tl;dr doom chaingun never made any sense
Something to brace against could be the Marine's armor itself, considering it is durable enough to take the Baron of Hell and Hell Knight projectiles, just like the vests can sustain multiple bullets, shotgun, plasma, and even a very high caliber weapon: the Super Chaingun, that might mean that it is solid enough to be lean weapons against, right? Considering the Shotgun, Super Shotgun, and the BFG 9000 all have stocks, the BFG 9000 kind have those two braces that you can put on your armpits or something, I don't know, too, heh. And yeah, the laser part, you might be right about that. The Plasma Rifle might make a little bit of sense, right? I mean, the muzzle moves forwards and backswards, kind of like the way the BFG is, that might be signifiying that the muzzle must be taking part of the recoil, and not much of the weapon itself.
User avatar
NeuralStunner
 
 
Posts: 12325
Joined: Tue Jul 21, 2009 12:04 pm
Preferred Pronouns: He/Him
Graphics Processor: nVidia with Vulkan support
Location: capital N, capital S, no space
Contact:

Re: Is the Pistol really worthless?

Post by NeuralStunner »

If the armor were able to resist external forces like that (setting aside how) it'd be impossible to move around in. (Never mind that knockback from damage does exist.) The main thing is that FPSes tend to abstract away the more frustrating real-world minutiae like recoil, bullet drop, inertia, drag, friction, mass, magnetism, conduction, convection, Emerson, Lake, and Palmer.

Generally an action game will cut out anything that subtracts from the action. (Long-term physiological effects, in particular.) Of course, other games don't, and there's always an audience for those. (If Vaecrius has ever played E.Y.E., I'm sure he's considered a similar mental health mechanic for HD. :P )
Clocky
Posts: 54
Joined: Sat Oct 22, 2016 6:16 am
Location: Inside a BFG 10K's Energy Cell magazine (Brazil, Rio Grande do Sul, Porto Alegre)

Re: Is the Pistol really worthless?

Post by Clocky »

NeuralStunner wrote:If the armor were able to resist external forces like that (setting aside how) it'd be impossible to move around in. (Never mind that knockback from damage does exist.) The main thing is that FPSes tend to abstract away the more frustrating real-world minutiae like recoil, bullet drop, inertia, drag, friction, mass, magnetism, conduction, convection, Emerson, Lake, and Palmer.

Generally an action game will cut out anything that subtracts from the action. (Long-term physiological effects, in particular.) Of course, other games don't, and there's always an audience for those. (If Vaecrius has ever played E.Y.E., I'm sure he's considered a similar mental health mechanic for HD. :P )
Hmm, yeah, did not really think about that, but I guess youre right, Vaecrius' HD really gives the person yhat is playing the very good need to stop, avoid monsters, and heal your character, making it essential for the player to not rush and be killed instantly by a Zombieman or Babuin, the more equipment you carry, the more your running and walking speed is reduced, just like the need to stand still to focus on what you are doing and not drop the magazine by holfing R If I remember correctly, it really helps with the "Slayer" Super Shotgun when reloading it, always checking for ammunition and putting your resreve shotgun shells on the little strap. Basically: It's a mod that you need to learn by your mistakes, always stay away from enemies, use the Chainsaw in emergency situations, and learn how to use the special abilities tgat the weapons have, always checking for yourc overall health with a large medical kit.

And yeah, I have to agree, no armor would be able to sustain freaking nuclear waste, LITERAL lava pools, and boiling hot blood pits, heh.
User avatar
Matt
Posts: 9696
Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2004 5:37 pm
Preferred Pronouns: They/Them
Operating System Version (Optional): Debian Bullseye
Location: Gotham City SAR, Wyld-Lands of the Lotus People, Dominionist PetroConfederacy of Saudi Canadia
Contact:

Re: Is the Pistol really worthless?

Post by Matt »

Re: mental health, after briefly considering the possibility of making the demons more realistic and realizing that I'd be including literally every mental illness/suicide trigger I could think of if I even wanted to so much as half-ass it, I think at this point I'm not even going to touch that beyond making the player shout and spasm involuntarily while berserk. :shock:

(though centi-assing it with just hallucinations would be primarily a challenge of making them for the affected player only)

The only armour I could imagine recoil recoil like that would be the size of a spaceship! I suppose one could have little thrusters on your spacesuit that counteract things and stabilize the person, but that would have to be emergency-only since you'd still need to worry about carrying remass.
Clocky
Posts: 54
Joined: Sat Oct 22, 2016 6:16 am
Location: Inside a BFG 10K's Energy Cell magazine (Brazil, Rio Grande do Sul, Porto Alegre)

Re: Is the Pistol really worthless?

Post by Clocky »

Vaecrius wrote:Re: mental health, after briefly considering the possibility of making the demons more realistic and realizing that I'd be including literally every mental illness/suicide trigger I could think of if I even wanted to so much as half-ass it, I think at this point I'm not even going to touch that beyond making the player shout and spasm involuntarily while berserk. :shock:

(though centi-assing it with just hallucinations would be primarily a challenge of making them for the affected player only)

The only armour I could imagine recoil recoil like that would be the size of a spaceship! I suppose one could have little thrusters on your spacesuit that counteract things and stabilize the person, but that would have to be emergency-only since you'd still need to worry about carrying remass.
Heck, if you really wanted to go that far with realism, you could:

Make chunks of flesh that are removed once a Babuin latches to the player for so long that it starts draining tbhe blood of the player away.

Make aiming down sights with the weapon sprites (no offense), develop special animations for every weapon special ability, i.e, the Thunder Buster's enemy range identification, the insert shell on the strap on the shotguns, and the BFG's charge energy animation.

Possibly add another energy weapon to the arsenal? Ehh, I know you're not doing any of these things any time soon.

Make the Brontonis, when you eject a projectile that was not used, it does not play the "klinks" like the spent shell does. Oh, also increase the volume of the Rocket Launcher's reload and unload sounds, they cant be heard at medium volume very well.

I knew I should have posted this in the HD thread...

Also… yeah, would kinda suck to have those little air boosters or something like that, but instead on an astronaut's suit, it would be reallyg big, on a marine's.
Post Reply

Return to “Off-Topic”