Guess who's back, back again ♪ Paid mods back, tell a friend

If it's not ZDoom, it goes here.

Re: Guess who's back, back again ♪ Paid mods back, tell a fr

Postby Crazy Toni » Tue Oct 03, 2017 3:11 am

Arctangent wrote:
Gez wrote:What happened to Doomguy's arms?

Is it a consequence of falling into that nukage vat in the comic?

I'm pretty sure that's a mod for Skyrim, and I think it's being worn by an Imperial woman.

Thats actually for Fallout 4:
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Re: Guess who's back, back again ♪ Paid mods back, tell a fr

Postby Captain J » Tue Oct 03, 2017 3:47 am

Wait. They also made BFG as well? Now this is getting a bit unfair. I mean, we haven't got any possibly-vanilla looking BFG related weapons for previous bethesda games' mods. Now it's finally here but need to pay to use.

That's fucked up man.
Last edited by Captain J on Tue Oct 03, 2017 6:22 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Guess who's back, back again ♪ Paid mods back, tell a fr

Postby Arctangent » Tue Oct 03, 2017 4:41 am

Captain J wrote:Wait. They also made BFG as well? Now this is getting a bit unfair. I mean, we haven't got any possibly-vanilla looking BFG related weapons for previous bethesda games/mods. Now it's finally here but need to pay to use.

That's fucked up man.

It ... really isn't? The BFG isn't a weapon in Fallout, and never has been. In fact, the only relation between Fallout and Doom is that they are owned by the same company in recent years, and have had zero relation until now. There's basically zero reason to expect the BFG to pop up Fallout.

A direct cameo to an entirely different game series is practically the definition of bonus content, like how the Soul Calibur games often have console-exclusive characters. How, exactly, is this fucked up?
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Re: Guess who's back, back again ♪ Paid mods back, tell a fr

Postby insightguy » Tue Oct 03, 2017 6:16 am

Arctangent wrote:A direct cameo to an entirely different game series is practically the definition of bonus content, like how the Soul Calibur games often have console-exclusive characters. How, exactly, is this fucked up?


I think were all used to modders "naturally" (for whatever this word is worth for) implementing something and eventually everything. I think he's just disappointed that it's here and we have to pay for it, especially the fact that this is a moddable game unlike Soul Calibur.
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Re: Guess who's back, back again ♪ Paid mods back, tell a fr

Postby Captain J » Tue Oct 03, 2017 6:23 am

You've said what i think. Thanks for that.
Arctangent wrote:It ... really isn't? The BFG isn't a weapon in Fallout, and never has been. In fact, the only relation between Fallout and Doom is that they are owned by the same company in recent years, and have had zero relation until now. There's basically zero reason to expect the BFG to pop up Fallout.

A direct cameo to an entirely different game series is practically the definition of bonus content, like how the Soul Calibur games often have console-exclusive characters. How, exactly, is this fucked up?
I meant the BFG-related mods. Sorry to confuse you. To me, it's fucked up nonetheless; It's finally here, the mod we could try in Fallout 4. But we have to pay first.
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Re: The New What Did You Last Do Thread

Postby NeuralStunner » Tue Oct 03, 2017 1:00 pm

Jimmy wrote:Flash thought: if the modders who are part of the Creation Club were able to receive donations rather than have their content placed behind a paywall, wouldn't everyone be happy?
Of course not. Everything should be free, and the entire industry should collapse under the weight of its own unprofitability.

For anyone who thinks that's unduly cynical, have a look at the development credits from any AAA title. Hundreds of artists, modelers, animators, programmers, testers, etc. put hours and hours of work into that product. They shouldn't be charging for their work, right?

Now bring it down to a smaller scale, where one or two people are handling every stage of an item's development short of the publishing itself.* They could be spending that time doing absolutely anything else that almost certainly pays better. Maybe that's the goal? Maybe they want to get into full-time game development, but their first impression from their potential audience is going to be "fuck you, sellout". That stings more than a little.

Setting aside that soliciting donations via unaffiliated mod sites is a legal minefield**, so having a company-sanctioned outlet is a boon. (Trying to post that armor & BFG mod with a donation button would be practically begging for a C&D.) Who wouldn't want the opportunity to make a living off their artistic/programming talents instead of cleaning restrooms or whatnot?***


* Don't forget that a significant amount of the price is going to the publisher and not the creator.
** Anyone remember the deal with DoomRL? (I.E. the actual details, not the sensationalist "grr, shuttin' down indies" version.)
*** Personally, right now I think I'd rather deal with the toilets.
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Re: The New What Did You Last Do Thread

Postby Arctangent » Tue Oct 03, 2017 3:54 pm

NeuralStunner wrote:** Anyone remember the deal with DoomRL? (I.E. the actual details, not the sensationalist "grr, shuttin' down indies" version.)

At first I read this as DoomRLA and was wondering if I missed something significant around these parts.
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Re: The New What Did You Last Do Thread

Postby DoomRater » Wed Oct 04, 2017 12:58 pm

Chris wrote:
DoomRater wrote:Ah but according to Beshethda it's not "paid mods" it's "mini-DLCs". They won't even call it what it is.

To be fair, what's the difference between a DLC and a mod? Technically speaking, a DLC is a mod, since it's an optional modification of the base game. The term "DLC" is generally used for official curated add-on content, while "mod" is unofficial user-created add-on content. In that vein, Creation Club is "mini-DLC" since it's contracted work, official curated add-on content.


You should look up corporate-speak, a way of "repackaging consequences" to "better the user experience" and conflating what terms actually mean.
They don't want to call them mods that you pay for because mods are intrinsically understood as a thing that has been free in gaming's golden years. There's both corporate bullet dodging and an understandable amount of distance someone lesser than a corporate entity would want to take from calling anything you pay for a "mod". Downloadable content doesn't always mod the game. It's a much broader term. Draw a venn diagram where the two meet and you can see where all the confusion comes from.

Again, there's a reason we want them to be honest by calling them paid mods, and why they specifically will go out of their way to not call them "paid mods". It's not just the revolt they got for calling it that, it actually leads to the level of confusion you just made with that post of yours.
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Re: Guess who's back, back again ♪ Paid mods back, tell a fr

Postby Arctangent » Wed Oct 04, 2017 3:27 pm

I ... can't think of a single DLC that doesn't mod the respective game in some form. Even those weird purchases on PSN and such for RPGs that grind a character to level 100 for you mod the game so that the characters reach that level automatically.
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Re: Guess who's back, back again ♪ Paid mods back, tell a fr

Postby DoomRater » Wed Oct 04, 2017 4:10 pm

Anything (literally anything) that doesn't change the base gameplay. That's wot I thought a MOD was, not buying statistics for a character or cosmetics or inventory. If we're gonna call getting new inventory modding the game, we're taking the word out of any usable context it still has.
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Re: Guess who's back, back again ♪ Paid mods back, tell a fr

Postby Amuscaria » Wed Oct 04, 2017 4:41 pm

10 Dollars for Skyrim Survival Mode....Oh yeah! (not)
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Re: Guess who's back, back again ♪ Paid mods back, tell a fr

Postby insightguy » Wed Oct 04, 2017 10:23 pm

I have to ask if anyone from the doom comunity when TNT and plutionia where a thing to give their 2 cents. Wasn't that the first instance of a "paid mod"? And how does that compare to today?
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Re: Guess who's back, back again ♪ Paid mods back, tell a fr

Postby wildweasel » Wed Oct 04, 2017 10:54 pm

insightguy wrote:I have to ask if anyone from the doom comunity when TNT and plutionia where a thing to give their 2 cents. Wasn't that the first instance of a "paid mod"? And how does that compare to today?

The 90s were a very different time. Final Doom was very much intended as a gesture to the hard-working authors to make their stuff official. It helps that it was effectively a standalone game in itself. At the same time, you had companies like WizardWorks selling D!ZONE shovelware CDs, for the benefit of those people who didn't have access to bulletin board services to download WADs themselves (which wasn't officially sanctioned by id Software, and due to a lack of legal precedent, continued being a legit thing until Sierra ran afoul of 3D Realms with the Total Meltdown For Duke 3D pack). In Final Doom's case, this was specifically id Software contacting the authors and commissioning them to make their projects official (presumably considered as a "work for hire" and not something they still get royalties for), and there was no involvement of "fun-bucks." In WizardWorks' case, the modders weren't seeing a single dime from sales of D!ZONE.
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Re: Guess who's back, back again ♪ Paid mods back, tell a fr

Postby insightguy » Thu Oct 05, 2017 12:49 am

DoomRater wrote:Anything (literally anything) that doesn't change the base gameplay.


What about TC's like S.U.P..E.R.natural and hideous destructor changing the core gameplay? Or heck, what about Pogostick, a side-scroller?

DoomRater wrote:That's wot I thought a MOD was, not buying statistics for a character or cosmetics or inventory. If we're gonna call getting new inventory modding the game, we're taking the word out of any usable context it still has.


I think the definition should be "any external modification to the game made by a third party that is not directly sanctioned by the owner that changes any of the following, but not limited to: the game play, appearance or story" but that's just me

Amuscaria wrote:10 Dollars for Skyrim Survival Mode....Oh yeah! (not)

This made me wonder, is it actually possible to support modders monetarily that is both more effective than donations and less scummy as selling them? A Patreon style system is out of the question for most people, so what is?

Heck, doesn't TF2 accept weapons and skins into the market made by the community? Why is that accepted?
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Re: Guess who's back, back again ♪ Paid mods back, tell a fr

Postby Gez » Thu Oct 05, 2017 4:20 am

DoomRater wrote:Anything (literally anything) that doesn't change the base gameplay. That's wot I thought a MOD was, not buying statistics for a character or cosmetics or inventory. If we're gonna call getting new inventory modding the game, we're taking the word out of any usable context it still has.

A mod is a modification. Anything that modifies the vanilla game is a mod. Even if all it changes is a single icon on the interface, it's a modification and therefore a mod.
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