If Doom games weren't big and if they were small

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If Doom games weren't big and if they were small

Postby gabrieloup » Thu Feb 04, 2016 8:00 am

So, I went to the Zandronum forums and I found an interesting topic that I'd like to discuss further, what if Doom games were shorter than what it really is? Imagine if Doom 1, 2 and 64 were 10 maps, each. This gave me the idea of maybe porting some of the Maps of Chaos Doom 1 maps into Doom 2, and having the entire series play in a progressive sort of order, but I have no idea how to port Doom 1 maps into Doom 2 properly, without missing textures, so that will be for another time. Instead, here's my thought of what Doom 1 and 2 could've been if they were 10 maps :

Doom 1 :
E1M1 : Hangar (obviously, the iconic level, never saw anyone disliking this level)
E1M3 : Toxin Refinery (cool level, I liked this one but I know people can differ in opinions and I'd like to know what map could replace this one)
E1M9 : Military Base (good level)
E1M8 : Phobos Anomaly (I don't like this level a lot, but it needs to be here for story purposes)
E2M1 : Deimos Anomaly (excellent level)
E2M8 : Tower of Babel (as iconic as Hangar, this one is loved by absolutely EVERYONE who ever cared about playing the Doom levels)
E3M1 : Hell Keep (awesome level)
E3M8 : Dis (really good ending for a Doom game, I hope the Doom reboot manages to make an ending as cool as this level)

Doom 2 :
MAP01 : Entryway (THE DM MAP! I'm surprised that nobody in the Halo community ever thought about remaking this map in Halo 5, the architecture of this map is so fucking good!)
MAP06 : The Crusher (Spidermind appears once again! Awesome map)
MAP07 : Dead Simple (The name completely describes the situation. Just kill everything)
MAP11 : O' of Destruction, a.k.a Circle of Death (good map)
MAP12 : The Factory (a story related map, and also a really good map overall)
MAP15 : Industrial Zone (okay map IMO, but I HAVE to put this here because of the hidden exit)
MAP31 : Wolfenstein (Go backwards in time and kick some fucking nazi ass!)
MAP32 : Grosse (Self explanatory)
MAP29 : Barrels o' Fun (the only Hell level in Doom 2 that I actually liked)
MAP30 : Icon of Sin (Pretty disappointing map, but I guess the game has to end somehow...)

Doom 64 :
Never played the game, so I have no fucking idea. Maybe I'll get to play it with the recent GZDoom port, or when Sergeant Mark IV releases Brutal Doom 64 this year.
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Re: If Doom games weren't big and if they were small

Postby YukiHerz » Thu Feb 04, 2016 12:13 pm

Honestly i'd cut out like 80% maps of each game and i wouldn't care.
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Re: If Doom games weren't big and if they were small

Postby Shadelight » Thu Feb 04, 2016 12:56 pm

gabrieloup wrote:Doom 64 :
Never played the game, so I have no fucking idea. Maybe I'll get to play it with the recent GZDoom port, or when Sergeant Mark IV releases Brutal Doom 64 this year.

Doom 64 EX exists, you know.
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Re: If Doom games weren't big and if they were small

Postby TheMightyHeracross » Thu Feb 04, 2016 5:07 pm

You need to add 2 maps in your Doom 2 list, preferably between 15 and 29, because you put the secret maps as part of the 10 maps, when the main campaign should still be 10.
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Re: If Doom games weren't big and if they were small

Postby Vaecrius » Thu Feb 04, 2016 7:57 pm

Interesting question!

One way to cheese this is to pick all the long maps. :V Sadly, it's precisely the short maps that are typically the most memorable...

To keep things balanced, let's do 9 maps plus one secret.

D1 - we are very limited because of the maps that by name and definition matter directly to the plot, and the two boss maps are too good to scrap, so those are in italics....... and given what the facilities actually represent, that basically determines E1 and E2 already.

1-1: Hangar. Theoretically since Doom already begins in media res it could easily be inferred that the Doomguy landed without incident and is already in, say, the Toxin Refinery or Central Processing, hence no italics, but it's much too good a map and much too good a starter to ditch.
1-2: Phobos Lab, as we mourn for the Computer Station.
1-3: Phobos Anomaly

2-1: Deimos Anomaly
2-2: Deimos Lab
2-3: Tower of Babel
Which is just fine as it contains two of my own favourites already, missing only Containment Area.

3-1: Part of me keeps screaming for Slough of Despair, while the rest of me is screaming that it can't possibly work as a starter for aesthetic reasons. But given what comes next... definitely Mount Erebus, since the big outdoors area lines up well with the notion that you've just landed on Hell from the floating moon.
3-2: Initial gut reaction: Pandaemonium for best mix of monsters and aesthetics. Honourable mention: Unholy Cathedral for the teleportation madness that would be lost if we cut out the very atmospheric (but very annoying) Gate to Limbo and thematic name.
3-3: Dis

Secret: Spawning Vats. It works very well as a secret level, and its theme makes the revelation even more scandalous. Could also be Containment Area, as a start-to-crate joke. The need for a secret exit that leads up to a Deimos map, incidentally, is further impetus for making Erebus into E3M1.


D2 - much, much more discretion here.

Finding the switch: Most of them are good, but I'll go with aesthetics (so absolutely ixnay on the antlet-gay).
1. Underhalls, which works just fine as a starting map all things considered.
2. Refueling Base, my second favourite map in this set after Underhalls and the most aesthetically consistent after it.
3. "O" of Destruction, which is one of the most solid D2 maps overall in here. The fact that it actually has the big switch and is therefore mandatory is icing.

Trekking through town: I'm just gonna flat out use my own personal favourites because they're also the ones that work best as a city setting. Industrial Zone is rearranged to be last, as it has the best urban-to-Hell theme progression - and a bit of a calm before the storm.
4. The Factory
5. Downtown
6. Industrial Zone

Hell: I pretty much hate every D2 hell map not mentioned below, so this is relatively quite easy to narrow down.
7. Tempted to say The Chasm for more mood stuff, but remembering this is Doom 2 and not Half-Life or Unreal, and given there's not episode boundary and the immediately preceding map is already a lower-intensity map, The Spirit World is vastly more fun.
8. The Living End, best and most "narrative" of the D2 hell maps.
9. Icon of Sin

Secret: Gotcha!. It's the hardest of the D2 maps in my view and definitely worth an extra-challenge status. Barrels 'O' Fun also works (see comment re: Containment Area).


Not nearly familiar enough with the other IWADs to compile a similar list.
Last edited by Vaecrius on Mon Feb 08, 2016 2:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: If Doom games weren't big and if they were small

Postby Doom Juan » Sun Feb 07, 2016 2:13 pm

I'd remove Wolfenstein and replace it with something more coherent to the plot of Doom2: it's an Easter Egg, and the idea of the Green Marine going back in time to Wolfenstein seems a little contrived.
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Re: If Doom games weren't big and if they were small

Postby wildweasel » Sun Feb 07, 2016 2:16 pm

Doom Juan wrote:I'd remove Wolfenstein and replace it with something more coherent to the plot of Doom2: it's an Easter Egg, and the idea of the Green Marine going back in time to Wolfenstein seems a little contrived.

You said it yourself, though, it's an easter egg. They never have to make sense.
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Re: If Doom games weren't big and if they were small

Postby Ethril » Sun Feb 07, 2016 2:23 pm

Vaecrius wrote:Industrial Zone is rearranged to be last, as it has the best urban-to-Hell theme progression - and a bit of a calm before the storm.
4. The Factory
5. Downtown
6. Industrial Zone


That's not "rearranged", that's just "skipping map14". :V
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Re: If Doom games weren't big and if they were small

Postby SamVision » Sun Feb 07, 2016 2:38 pm

It would have made more sense for Gotcha to be the first hell level and Unholy Cathedral to be the last Earth level.
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Re: If Doom games weren't big and if they were small

Postby Dancso » Sun Feb 07, 2016 4:38 pm

wildweasel wrote:You said it yourself, though, it's an easter egg. They never have to make sense.

It was my understanding that the 10 levels in the list were meant to be maps that every player will go through. (iow, none of them secret)
Would it make sense to include an easter egg as a main part of a game? Given doom's consistent theme, it would feel out of place to me.
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Re: If Doom games weren't big and if they were small

Postby Vaecrius » Mon Feb 08, 2016 3:06 am

Ethril wrote:That's not "rearranged", that's just "skipping map14". :V
... yeah, kinda shows how often I play the city maps in order. -_-
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Re: If Doom games weren't big and if they were small

Postby Princess Viscra Maelstrom » Mon Feb 08, 2016 3:28 am

wildweasel wrote:
Doom Juan wrote:I'd remove Wolfenstein and replace it with something more coherent to the plot of Doom2: it's an Easter Egg, and the idea of the Green Marine going back in time to Wolfenstein seems a little contrived.

You said it yourself, though, it's an easter egg. They never have to make sense.

but an easter egg is either a nod or an inside joke of some sort that is usually tucked away or only briefly mentioned somewhere. if Doom 2 suddenly had levels taken straight out of Wolfenstein 3D as part of the main game, that's not so much an easter egg anymore as it could be considered lazy and half-assed on the developers part.
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Re: If Doom games weren't big and if they were small

Postby wildweasel » Mon Feb 08, 2016 11:16 am

Where did anybody say anything about it being part of the main game, though?
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Re: If Doom games weren't big and if they were small

Postby Princess Viscra Maelstrom » Mon Feb 08, 2016 1:20 pm

gabrieloup's list made it sound like they were placed in as part of the main game, though i missed the mention about the secret exit, so maybe scratch what i said then.
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Re: If Doom games weren't big and if they were small

Postby Dancso » Mon Feb 08, 2016 2:21 pm

Same, DERP

Spoiler:
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