Thoughts on projects like GLOOM and DECK

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Thoughts on projects like GLOOM and DECK

Postby insightguy » Tue Jul 28, 2015 1:24 am

I was thinking about terminus13's Marrub's project GLOOM and JPL's DECK (If it still being worked on) And just thought that if the idea of people making games from these engines and selling them are gonna become a thing.

From my observation (Just mine so I can be missing facts), the only reason something like RPGmaker succeeded as it did was because of several factors, most seem to be present in the doom community (Mostly friendly tolerable community, fresh ideas, experienced people, reasonably flexible engine and etc.) But what else would we need?

Some Ideas off the top of my head:
-A commercial success story from someone who made a game with this engine
-Paid commissions for coding, art and etc.
-Genre-breaking expectations (ex: Kinda like how to the moon was a visual novel rather than an RPG)
-Free games being made for practice/passion (ex: Most RPGmaker games on gamejolt)

Any other Ideas?

P.S. Do you think GLOOME and DECK projects should go to an entirely new forum or would it be better for them to have their own little sub-forum here?

EDIT: Stuff
Last edited by insightguy on Tue Jul 28, 2015 10:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Thoughts on projects like GLOOM and DECK

Postby TerminusEst13 » Tue Jul 28, 2015 1:59 am

Just a heads-up, neither GLOOME nor DECK are mine. I'm acting as PR for GLOOME since Marrub's a bro and I'm good at writing long spiels of text, but it's still distinctly marrub's. DECK I'm completely unrelated to at all, aside from talking to JPL a few times and letting him know he's a cool guy.
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Re: Thoughts on projects like GLOOM and DECK

Postby Marrub » Tue Jul 28, 2015 2:05 am

insightguy wrote:I was thinking about terminus13's project GLOOM

It's not, it's mine. :) (Also, it's GLOOME, not GLOOM. GLOOM is a shooter, GLOOME is an acronym.)
insightguy wrote:and DECK

It's not, it's JPL's.
insightguy wrote:(If it still being worked on)

It's not.

insightguy wrote:And just thought that if the idea of people making games from these engines and selling them are gonna become a thing.

That is quite the point, besides extending ZDoom to become more general purpose.

insightguy wrote:From my observation (Just mine so I can be missing facts), the only reason something like RPGmaker succeeded as it did was because of several factors, most seem to be present in the doom community (Mostly friendly tolerable community, fresh ideas, experienced people, reasonably flexible engine and etc.) But what else would we need?

An engine does not succeed purely on its use.

insightguy wrote:-A commercial success story from someone who made a game with this engine
-Paid commissions for coding, art and etc.

Please no.

insightguy wrote:-Genre-breaking expectations (ex: Kinda like how to the moon was a visual novel rather than an RPG)
-Free games being made for practice/passion (ex: Most RPGmaker games on gamejolt)

Please yes.

insightguy wrote:P.S. Do you think GLOOM and DECK projects should go to an entirely new forum or would it be better for them to have their own little sub-forum here?

I've been offered a subforum on Seriously!, but declined already. You can look for the post if you want some more info on that. :)
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Re: Thoughts on projects like GLOOM and DECK

Postby Graf Zahl » Tue Jul 28, 2015 3:35 am

insightguy wrote:P.S. Do you think GLOOM and DECK projects should go to an entirely new forum or would it be better for them to have their own little sub-forum here?



Why should they? As long as the engines stay relatively compatible it shouldn't be an issue.
The only danger I see right now - after checking out the GLOOME repo that enthusiasm may overrule common sense and result in some rift. While I can understand the motivation behind some of the new features I already see the engine heading too much into 'wouldn't it be cool if...' territory where new features get added without fully thinking about the broader implications.
Needless to say, the end result will be two mutually incompatible branches of the same code base and that'd be a shame.
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Re: Thoughts on projects like GLOOM and DECK

Postby Marrub » Tue Jul 28, 2015 3:48 am

Graf Zahl wrote:The only danger I see right now - after checking out the GLOOME repo that enthusiasm may overrule common sense and result in some rift. While I can understand the motivation behind some of the new features I already see the engine heading too much into 'wouldn't it be cool if...' territory where new features get added without fully thinking about the broader implications.
Needless to say, the end result will be two mutually incompatible branches of the same code base and that'd be a shame.


Yes, I realize this. I assure you I do think through things before adding them.
Most of the todo is indeed "wouldn't it be cool if..." to the point where I might have to rename it to something like "feature ideas".
About codebase compatibility, I have and will try my hardest to keep it where I can make pull requests to ZDoom for adding things/fixes from GLOOME.
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Re: Thoughts on projects like GLOOM and DECK

Postby Graf Zahl » Tue Jul 28, 2015 4:55 am

I'd recommend you build your repo as an actual fork. If both repos are on the same repo tree it'd be far easier to merge from and to it. And you could get new features just by making a pull on the ZDoom repo. That'S how I set up GZDoom, I only did not realize that I should have done the clone locally and not through GitHub...
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Re: Thoughts on projects like GLOOM and DECK

Postby Marrub » Tue Jul 28, 2015 5:29 am

I'll see if I can, the reason I hadn't already is because I already have a ZDoom fork and apparently Github really doesn't want me to have two.
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Re: Thoughts on projects like GLOOM and DECK

Postby Graf Zahl » Tue Jul 28, 2015 6:30 am

Yes, I know the problem. But if you create the fork locally on your hard drive and then just push to the new remote it won't be treated as a fork anymore.
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Re: Thoughts on projects like GLOOM and DECK

Postby Marrub » Tue Jul 28, 2015 7:08 am

Ohhh, I see. Thank you, I'll get to that.
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Re: Thoughts on projects like GLOOM and DECK

Postby cambertian » Tue Jul 28, 2015 6:36 pm

This reminds me of a weird question that's been in my head while starting work on my own personal FPS... Would UDMF be free to use in non-Doom engines?
I would think so, as long as the parser code is original, right?
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Re: Thoughts on projects like GLOOM and DECK

Postby Blzut3 » Tue Jul 28, 2015 10:04 pm

Marrub wrote:Github really doesn't want me to have two.

You can create an organization for GLOOME and have the ability to have a marked fork there.
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Re: Thoughts on projects like GLOOM and DECK

Postby insightguy » Tue Jul 28, 2015 10:49 pm

Marrub wrote:
insightguy wrote:I was thinking about terminus13's project GLOOM

It's not, it's mine. :) (Also, it's GLOOME, not GLOOM. GLOOM is a shooter, GLOOME is an acronym.)
insightguy wrote:and DECK

It's not, it's JPL's.

Corrections made to first post

Marrub wrote:
insightguy wrote:From my observation (Just mine so I can be missing facts), the only reason something like RPGmaker succeeded as it did was because of several factors, most seem to be present in the doom community (Mostly friendly tolerable community, fresh ideas, experienced people, reasonably flexible engine and etc.) But what else would we need?

An engine does not succeed purely on its use.

Then what else?

Marrub wrote:
insightguy wrote:-A commercial success story from someone who made a game with this engine
-Paid commissions for coding, art and etc.

Please no.

May I ask if you can specify why not? The commissions I kind of get(That can get ugly), but how is a commercial success a bad thing?
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Re: Thoughts on projects like GLOOM and DECK

Postby JPL » Wed Aug 05, 2015 11:01 am

Since it was mentioned, nothing much is happening with DECK at the moment as I work on other projects, plus I think it'd work better as a small, very focused crowdfunded project - see my update here: http://vectorpoem.com/deck

I do think all of the things mentioned in the OP would be nice, it's really just a matter of the project(s) reaching a critical mass of visibility and user base size. If you get enough people making something, it will get noticed and create a virtuous cycle of growth. G/ZDoom have succeeded marvellously for their goals (be the best way to run Doom engine games), but being a good platform for original games is a different and in some ways harder set of goals to fulfill.
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