Page 14 of 15

Re: Charging money for mods was almost a thing!

PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2015 8:35 am
by Hellstorm Archon
Xtyfe wrote:I wouldn't say this was flawless at all :p

This did a lot of damage, I don't think it will ever be the same again now. The community hunted down and threw out the people who were charging for mods and now we have to deal with that. A lot of people were immature and childish as well and that will stick with us too.


Pretty much this. The whole debacle over paid mods essentially degenenerated into a witch hunt, where "Lord Gaben" is now seen as some sort of false god, and Bethesda is suddenly now worse than EA, Activision, and Ubisoft combined (by the way, it wasn't Bethesda Softworks that went along with this concept, but Bethesda Game Studios!)

What's really sad about this whole thing is that people are stupid and will easily get swept up in a mob mentality that prohibits any modicum of logic and common sense.
If we REALLY didn't want paid mods, we could have asked modders not to make their mods premium, or possibly even suggest to Valve how to regulate paid mods if it was viable (or explain why it's such a bad idea if it isn't). But of course, nobody can expect logical thinking and unbiased understanding, because everyone wants to argue over something like five year olds not getting candy.

Xtyfe wrote:Just lump him together with the rest of the gaming journalist fucktards.


Really? Just really? TB does tend to be more factual and more credible than most of these gaming journalism sites (IGN, Gamespot, etc.), and the second he screws up one tiny thing, EVERYONE decides to pounce on him as being just as bad as the rest of the "professional" gaming journalists. It's one thing to trust your own judgment on games, but to label a video game critic as a "sellout" over one research error out of thousands of hours worth of research.

I swear, the gaming community at large is starting to devolve into a culture of incessant whining and nerd raging over just about everything.

Ok, rant over. :P

Re: Charging money for mods was almost a thing!

PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2015 8:42 am
by Project Dark Fox
Hellstorm Archon wrote:I swear, the gaming community at large is starting to devolve into a culture of incessant whining and nerd raging over just about everything.

The Sonic community has been doing this for the past ten years. I think I am more surprised that they have mellowed out a little bit when virtually everyone else is starting to get on their old level.

Re: Charging money for mods was almost a thing!

PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2015 9:24 am
by Xtyfe
Hellstorm Archon wrote:I swear, the gaming community at large is starting to devolve into a culture of incessant whining and nerd raging over just about everything.


Can you blame it? It's been kicked around and teeth knocked in for a good 10-15 years now.

Project Dark Fox wrote:The Sonic community has been doing this for the past ten years. I think I am more surprised that they have mellowed out a little bit when virtually everyone else is starting to get on their old level.


SONIC'S ARMS ARE NOT BLUE!

Re: Charging money for mods was almost a thing!

PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2015 9:45 am
by Nash

Re: Charging money for mods was almost a thing!

PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2015 10:38 am
by Project Dark Fox

It was the way they were going to do it. The id Net thing sounded like a really cool idea the way he presented it. Especially since it wasn't the community who paid for the mod, but id themselves, based on the level of traffic. They were to even hand-select whatever mods were out there. That was going to require some serious QA, though, and with how much they had going on at the time, I don't think their small studio could've made it work.

Re: Charging money for mods was almost a thing!

PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2015 5:09 pm
by Big C
Hellstorm Archon wrote:
Xtyfe wrote:I wouldn't say this was flawless at all :p

This did a lot of damage, I don't think it will ever be the same again now. The community hunted down and threw out the people who were charging for mods and now we have to deal with that. A lot of people were immature and childish as well and that will stick with us too.


Pretty much this. The whole debacle over paid mods essentially degenenerated into a witch hunt, where "Lord Gaben" is now seen as some sort of false god, and Bethesda is suddenly now worse than EA, Activision, and Ubisoft combined (by the way, it wasn't Bethesda Softworks that went along with this concept, but Bethesda Game Studios!)

What's really sad about this whole thing is that people are stupid and will easily get swept up in a mob mentality that prohibits any modicum of logic and common sense.
If we REALLY didn't want paid mods, we could have asked modders not to make their mods premium, or possibly even suggest to Valve how to regulate paid mods if it was viable (or explain why it's such a bad idea if it isn't). But of course, nobody can expect logical thinking and unbiased understanding, because everyone wants to argue over something like five year olds not getting candy.

Xtyfe wrote:Just lump him together with the rest of the gaming journalist fucktards.


Really? Just really? TB does tend to be more factual and more credible than most of these gaming journalism sites (IGN, Gamespot, etc.), and the second he screws up one tiny thing, EVERYONE decides to pounce on him as being just as bad as the rest of the "professional" gaming journalists. It's one thing to trust your own judgment on games, but to label a video game critic as a "sellout" over one research error out of thousands of hours worth of research.

I swear, the gaming community at large is starting to devolve into a culture of incessant whining and nerd raging over just about everything.

Ok, rant over. :P


TB gave SargeMk4 more star power, which I don't think is what a lot of people want at this point, as it not only encourages his ego but that of his little 'fan club'. And when THAT happens, we wind up with people coming over HERE and asking/begging/demanding mod authors to add Brutal DooM compatibility where it's neither needed nor wanted. And if cem26's current status is any indication I think people are sick of that at this point.

Also, it's hardly just the gaming community---older, supposedly wiser folks in the sci-fi/fantasy literature community have officially gone nuts recently. Exhibit A: The Hugo Awards. Google at risk to your own sanity.

Re: Charging money for mods was almost a thing!

PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2015 5:34 pm
by Xtyfe
The thing about TB is, he likes to think that he speaks for the gaming community. It's that kind of elitism that I lump him in with gaming journalists.

Re: Charging money for mods was almost a thing!

PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2015 6:21 pm
by Big C
On the subject of elitism, I am NOT fond of his disdain for consoles, either.

Re: Charging money for mods was almost a thing!

PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2015 11:33 pm
by Snarboo
I'm not sure how anyone can take TB seriously given most of his videos are huge wastes of time, wherein he regails us with tales of his impressive rig filled with "FIFTY-TWELVE GEFORCE TITANS!!!" He's also pretty terrible at the games he plays, and has a habit of running his mouth off without fully grasping the argument he's trying to make (see his response to GG).

I've found Jim Sterling is way more on the nose when it comes to games commentary, as well as funnier. Whether he's better at playing games is debatable, however. :p

Re: Charging money for mods was almost a thing!

PostPosted: Wed May 06, 2015 1:49 am
by Gez

Yeah, he says that, but commercial exploitation of mods was specifically forbidden by the Doom EULA and by the Doom Data Utility License. (Likewise, the first source release of the Doom source code forbade commercial use, a ban that would only be lifted by the re-release under the GPL.)

Their idea of paid mods was more like Final Doom or Master Levels I guess, where it's the game companies that sets the price and controls the sales.

Re: Charging money for mods was almost a thing!

PostPosted: Wed May 06, 2015 6:17 am
by demo_the_man
Paid mods could be done very well the way id had planned them, as it created a best of the best page for mods, which compensated authors for their hard work. The way valve did it was poorly executed, as it really made it hard for people to really get access to thier favorite mods updates as they went behind a nice big pay wall.

Re: Charging money for mods was almost a thing!

PostPosted: Wed May 06, 2015 10:28 am
by NeuralStunner
The problem still isn't with mods turning commercial, that's not new in the slightest. It's been happening since Final Doom. Killing Floor started as a mod, as did Garry's Mod (obviously) and more recently, Black Mesa: Source.

The problem is in making this process too accessible. These previous commercialized mods were successful due to the publishing company being involved and actual quality control occurring.

I'm sure we all remember what a mess Steam Greenlight was before they instituted the $100 entry fee/donation. I wouldn't be surprised if something similar happens on the next run of mod-selling. The alternative is to have dedicated staff to test and approve submissions. (And good luck with that; Some publishers seem to barely test and approve their own products.)

The less technical problem is community. Any time a good modder starts looking into commercializing their mod, it's probably because donations are just not working for them. Most of the people screaming "SELLOUT!" probabnly never would have even considered giving a dime to these people. As usual, gamers deserve to be given the absolute best for nothing, and are never part of the problem. :roll:

Re: Charging money for mods was almost a thing!

PostPosted: Wed May 06, 2015 11:12 am
by Reactor
Sometimes commercializing a mod is not for grabbing cash. I know it's only the minority of modders, but some of them actually cares about publicity and popularity more than getting "munnies". Alas, freebies are not allowed in shops (at least here), so in these cases, money is usually a secondary thing.

Re: Charging money for mods was almost a thing!

PostPosted: Wed May 06, 2015 12:15 pm
by MetroidJunkie
Reactor wrote:Sometimes commercializing a mod is not for grabbing cash. I know it's only the minority of modders, but some of them actually cares about publicity and popularity more than getting "munnies". Alas, freebies are not allowed in shops (at least here), so in these cases, money is usually a secondary thing.


Then charge the very smallest amount they can get away with? 50 cents or something?

Re: Charging money for mods was almost a thing!

PostPosted: Wed May 06, 2015 1:34 pm
by Reactor
Yes, usually these stuffs are cheap. If the author just wants publicity and he thinks he can earn this by selling his game in stores, then he should offer it for a small amount (he'll need to charge a little money for it because of the price of cover prints, the plastic cover etc). And of course, apart from selling it, still offer free download. That's enough proof for me to see that the author is not a sell-out.