Original Doom

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Re: Original Doom

Postby NeuralStunner » Sun Feb 08, 2015 12:23 pm

It's kind of interesting to me that there were so few Doom engine games. Build had about as many "core" games, but the engine saw quite a few not-too-good third-party titles. I can't think of a commercial third-party Doom engine game that was just crap.*

* I don't know if Shadowcaster should technically be considered "Doom engine" or not, but even then I would call it "pretty okay" rather than "crap". Hacx was kind of a flop but still not terrible.
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Re: Original Doom

Postby Enjay » Sun Feb 08, 2015 12:37 pm

Would Hell2Pay and Perdition's Gate count or are they really just commercial PWADs? Probably the latter thinking about it.

It is interesting that Build was so heavily used by smaller companies versus Doom. I wonder how much of that was down to engine capabilities versus other considerations such as licensing/cost/etc?
Last edited by Enjay on Sun Feb 08, 2015 12:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Original Doom

Postby xenoxols » Sun Feb 08, 2015 12:38 pm

Wasn't HACX a PWAD originally?
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Re: Original Doom

Postby Galaxy_Stranger » Sun Feb 08, 2015 10:42 pm

I enjoyed Doom about as much as anyone else when it came out, but I liked it most because you could make your own maps for it.

I didn't like the controls, so it was great when we got mouselook and later jumping.

What I really wanted out of the game was less abstract maps. I understand that they were making gameplay a priority, but I like continuity and atmosphere. I wanted room architecture to have recognizable things in them. Not necessarily chairs and things like that, but they could have textured the rooms to look more familiar and include objects that made the rooms look like what they were supposed to be. You want vats? Fine - make the map the way you want it to play and then texture some vats in there.

It might sound weird, but I also wanted vehicles. Other games up to that point had vehicles in the form of simply changing what the player looked like or changing the 2d sprite the player controlled. You know - first level is on foot, the second level, you're controlling a vehicle. Something like that would have been fun in the original game. Maybe a tram or two. Maybe a tank turret.
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Re: Original Doom

Postby chelonian » Sun Feb 08, 2015 10:56 pm

Terminals, upgrade system, perhaps a bit of parkour. Oh, and the whole "Stealth vs Mayhem" thing ( Part of which is in my upcoming mod The Specialist).
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Re: Original Doom

Postby leileilol » Mon Feb 09, 2015 11:56 am

Galaxy_Stranger wrote:It might sound weird, but I also wanted vehicles. Other games up to that point had vehicles in the form of simply changing what the player looked like or changing the 2d sprite the player controlled. You know - first level is on foot, the second level, you're controlling a vehicle. Something like that would have been fun in the original game. Maybe a tram or two. Maybe a tank turret.

I couldn't recall many 3d PC games that did that in 93 though. Robocop 3D is one to name for sure however. It tried to do everything - first person shooting, driving, and some jetpack flying thing and a fighting thing - all in polygonal 3d, however given it was done in the europedidntdiscovergameplay period.... :puke:
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Re: Original Doom

Postby SamVision » Mon Feb 09, 2015 12:03 pm

From the original design doc Doom Bible, I got the impression that Doom was meant to play a bit like how System Shock did.
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Re: Original Doom

Postby Galaxy_Stranger » Mon Feb 09, 2015 2:23 pm

leileilol wrote:I couldn't recall many 3d PC games that did that in 93 though. Robocop 3D is one to name for sure however. It tried to do everything - first person shooting, driving, and some jetpack flying thing and a fighting thing - all in polygonal 3d, however given it was done in the europedidntdiscovergameplay period.... :puke:


Well, what I meant was games like Metal Slug. There were lots of games like that where you'd be playing and then have the opportunity to drive something around. Something like that in Doom would have been, (and will be), pretty fun. SHOGO: MAD handled it by changing maps when the player "used" the tank, then on the next level, the player was the tank.

But many of these ideas would change Doom's gameplay drastically. I also liked the direction that the Doom Bible eludes to.
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Re: Original Doom

Postby Enjay » Mon Feb 09, 2015 2:35 pm

I really, really dislike driving in FPS games. As I've said before, I haven't met a single one that does it well (even in games that I quite like). Dedicated driving games (even though they are generally not my kind of game) get it right. FPS games get it wrong. They simply don't seem to be suited to it.

If the original Doom had driving, I almost certainly wouldn't have liked it as much. What's more, driving would, IMO, have been totally out of character with the relatively stripped-down game mechanics of Doom. Having driving would feel like an additional overhead that isn't part of the simple run, gun, kill, solve mazes style of Doom. It would, IMO, break the flow. TBH, I can't imagine much worse for the original Doom.
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Re: Original Doom

Postby MetroidJunkie » Mon Feb 09, 2015 2:40 pm

One thing I would like to have seen in the original Doom is a weapon with heat seeking missiles. The engine could certainly handle it, seeing as how the Revenant could do them. Maybe it could have been a rare secondary ammo for the rocket launcher like on Duke Nukem Zero Hour.
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Re: Original Doom

Postby Galaxy_Stranger » Mon Feb 09, 2015 2:42 pm

That's true - it would radically change gameplay. But I wouldn't make every map a driving map - just a handful of times. Like, you can turn on a tank and take on a cyberdemon with it, arena style.

Also - found a use for those models you found for me:
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Re: Original Doom

Postby Galaxy_Stranger » Mon Feb 09, 2015 2:43 pm

MetroidJunkie wrote:One thing I would like to have seen in the original Doom is a weapon with heat seeking missiles. The engine could certainly handle it, seeing as how the Revenant could do them. Maybe it could have been a rare secondary ammo for the rocket launcher like on Duke Nukem Zero Hour.


That was like, the Holy Grail. Seeking missiles... Tried so hard to make those work...
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Re: Original Doom

Postby Enjay » Mon Feb 09, 2015 3:11 pm

Modern mods doing driving is cool. Mods that completely replace the walking with driving/flying/whatever is also cool (though again, unlikely to be as good as a dedicated game of that type). I'm all for people doing innovative stuff with the (G)ZDoom engine. I was mainly reacting to how inappropriate I feel it would have been to have driving in the original Doom.
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Re: Original Doom

Postby MetroidJunkie » Mon Feb 09, 2015 3:25 pm

Enjay wrote:Modern mods doing driving is cool. Mods that completely replace the walking with driving/flying/whatever is also cool (though again, unlikely to be as good as a dedicated game of that type). I'm all for people doing innovative stuff with the (G)ZDoom engine. I was mainly reacting to how inappropriate I feel it would have been to have driving in the original Doom.


Considering Doom can't do a fraction of what those source ports can, I can't imagine it would have ended well. Besides, the Doom Guy's a friggin' Olympic runner even when he's bogged down with equipment so it's not like he even needs a vehicle. :lol:
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Re: Original Doom

Postby Enjay » Mon Feb 09, 2015 3:32 pm

MetroidJunkie wrote:Besides, the Doom Guy's a friggin' Olympic runner even when he's bogged down with equipment so it's not like he even needs a vehicle. :lol:

Indeed: an Olympic runner who has cheetah-sprint-like speeds that he can maintain over marathon distances with the carrying capacity of a pick-up truck. :yup:
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