Great videogame concepts with bad executions

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Great videogame concepts with bad executions

Postby insightguy » Mon May 14, 2018 8:41 am

(3rd retype, flicking thought I got IP banned or something)

Shit was about to get close political and gloomy in another thread so why not talk about something less gloomy: Bad Video Games!

The video that inspired me to talk about this:
Spoiler: Barely SFW, might be too lewd for some (might just link it if it's too lewd)


If you don't want to open it, it's fine. the gist is that it's a korean developed game made from the serious sam engine with interesting gameplay that includes:
  • Interesting uneven Dual wielding
  • A somewhat interesting partner system (auto melee, reloads unequiped weapons, and can clear an area out as an ability)
  • Reloading that encourages weapon swap (empty unequiped weapon is reloaded by your partner)
  • A primitive shooting combo system.

But... the levels, enemies, and overall game was shit making this become another crappy FPS in the bargain bin. This game was an example to some of wasted potential.

What games do you think may not be good but probably deserve to be remade or revisited by another developer (or you, maybe it can be redone in zdoom.)

P.S. To the people wondering if this is similar to my "games that deserve a second chance" thread, but this is more "bad games with good ideas" rather than "Games that deserve another spin"
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Re: Great videogame concepts with bad executions

Postby Reactor » Mon May 14, 2018 9:10 am

Yes, there are quite a few such games, which had very good concepts, but too bad they were given to incompetent nincompoops who should have worked as bakers or a car mechanics instead of a software developers. Many of such games can be found in the "Bad games to avoid" (now locked) topic, even though the great majority of games in there are fubar, there are some, which could have become at least a moderate success.

- Most LJN games which are movie-based. The AVGN elaborated on these a lot, I believe they need no introduction. Games like Nightmare on Elm Street or Terminator 2. I know that compared to a computer, NES has strict limits, but come on, these games could have been waaaaay better than what they are now.

- Many titles from Action 52 had great potential. For a starter, the Cheetahmen. The other, smaller games also had interesting and well-thought-up concepts which were ruined by making the games themselves utter crud. Such games would be Illuminator, Star Evl, City of Doom, Billy Bob, Meong, Beeps and Blips, and many others.
Funny thing is, there WAS a project to revive Action 52 and create 52 GOOD games out of the 52 abysmal ones. The project was never pulled thru, but several games have been remade, and they turned out the be very good - for instance, the remakes of Sombreros, City of Doom or Non-Human. THIS is how it should have been in the first place...!

- Transformers for the Famicom. AVGN again.

- Darkwing Duck for the Turbografx16. Yep, AVGN.

- Many Virtual Boy games could be remade for the current VR systems. I'm no fan of Oculus Rift or any other VR systems, personally I still believe it's just a fad and the technology is still much too young, but they would fare WAY better now than they did on VR-32.

- The game Calvino Noir. As I wrote in the corresponding topic, it could have been a good dark-gothic noir game, if it had better controls, and the option of using guns.
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Re: Great videogame concepts with bad executions

Postby lil'devil » Mon May 14, 2018 10:34 am

Maybe Daikatana? I thought this game tried so hard to be innovative, but it all went wrong. All those weapons with unusual attacks and interesting setting and other stuff could've been really interesting in cool had it been implemented well.
But I don't know, I've never played the game, so I can only guess. :)
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Re: Great videogame concepts with bad executions

Postby RexS » Mon May 14, 2018 12:07 pm

Reactor wrote:
- Many Virtual Boy games could be remade for the current VR systems. I'm no fan of Oculus Rift or any other VR systems, personally I still believe it's just a fad and the technology is still much too young, but they would fare WAY better now than they did on VR-32.


I used to think it was a fad, until I bought one. Elite: Dangerous and Project CARS 2 in VR is life changing, and I don't use that term lightly. It's hard to play non VR games, now, it is such a fantastic experience.
Last edited by RexS on Mon May 14, 2018 3:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Great videogame concepts with bad executions

Postby 4thcharacter » Mon May 14, 2018 12:56 pm

Strife, since it doesn't know if it wants to be stealthy or not. But good thing that doesn't make it unplayable.
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Re: Great videogame concepts with bad executions

Postby leileilol » Mon May 14, 2018 5:37 pm

Blood 2
Extreme Paintbrawl
Kingpin
Killing Time
Klingon Honor Guard
Montezuma's Return!
Powerslave
Rex Blade
Wetrix
All Serious Sams
Urban Assault
War Inc.
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Re: Great videogame concepts with bad executions

Postby Matt » Mon May 14, 2018 6:37 pm

Inside a Star-Filled Sky.

Procedurally generated infinite top-down arena shooter that lets you switch bodies and enter levels with themes based on the insides of the characters sounds like it'd be great fun, but:

- badly coded, computer kept overheating
- cheap faux-retro graphics with lots of distracting (and apparently processor-intensive) effects
- the variations weren't actually obvious enough not to feel very samey after a short while
- true to its name, no end in sight, so you're just playing constantly without any goal or reward aside from pure Skinner-box (and even that element isn't engaging either)
- the gunplay is just really, really tedious (and not a good "they're as good as us, we need to break through, 20 minutes of tense cat-and-mouse sniper battle" tedious, in fact almost literally the exact perfect opposite, "you know exactly what it's doing and it's completely stupid and predictable but you just stare at it for 20 minutes with this delusional hope for an opening until you give up in despair" tedious)
- what is wrong with that music

Despite all these years of Doom, the one time I had a dream that was explicitly about hell and was based on a gaming experience was based on this game.


EDIT: How I'd change it:

- High scores and permadeath (possibly involving a callback to "Passage"?)
- More visual cues as to what is changing and why.
- More text on the HUD explaining what is what. (really cheap and effective way to add more perceived variety and help the player understand the actual variety)
- Quiet overworld/hub/base/safe space that's fairly consistent, for contrast
- Occasional, rare callbacks to previous encounters
- Longer range for all bullets



EDIT: Brainstorming random shit that could be added to a hypothetical "Inside This Barf-Filled Guy"...


Powers/Traits:
- movement speed
- movement acceleration
- movement deceleration
- how and how much shooting affects movement (recoil, tendency to walk towards facing, etc.)
- hitbox size
- bullet size
- ability to alter own appearance (and "inner" level upon death) by shooting bots and grafting pieces of them onto yourself
- whether the above happens voluntarily or involuntarily
- recharge rate for shots

AI:
- shooting effect on movement, recharge rate, etc.
- precision
- target prediction
- hunting
- perfectionism (will not shoot unless target in sight)
- wall-following
- tendency to randomly change directions
- tendency to chase the player
- firing rate
- bullet colour
- chance of positive/negative space being inverted if a bullet hits you and you're forced to go back inside
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Re: Great videogame concepts with bad executions

Postby NeuralStunner » Tue May 15, 2018 6:51 pm

Shadowcaster. IIRC the developers have mentioned that they weren't exactly happy with the final product either.

The shapeshifting mechanic is interesting enough, but combat itself is tedious and unrewarding. Balance is all over the place: Early on you are easily massacred by anything in melee range, by the end of the game you can pretty much just transform into a giant stone dude and punch the final boss to death with impunity.


I could also point out Lifeline, though this seems mainly like a fault of the technology not being mature enough.
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Re: Great videogame concepts with bad executions

Postby Reactor » Tue May 15, 2018 6:57 pm

Street Fighter 2010 should also have a remake. That game had lots of potential, but it did have several flaws. It wasn't a bad game, or it wasn't "ruined", it's just could have been a lot better, starting with the storyline, it really should be tied closer to the original Street Fighter-saga. Besides just shooting, hand-to-hand combat should also be included. Addig more levels and more powerups would also be extremely nice, and since the limitations of a NES cartridge don't exist anymore, technically, all gates are open for its revival. And besides, the story didn't finish after killing the final boss, so there should have also been a sequel.
The only problem would be the date. It is eight years past 2010, and nowadays, labeling a game 2000-something with ultra-futuristic stuff in it is...well...pretty awkward. Gosh, I remember how everyone expected the 2000s to be something like in Total Recall, with flying cars, hovershoes- and boards, cities in the sky, teleportation and shit, and when 2000 passed...meh.
Reality sucks...
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Re: Great videogame concepts with bad executions

Postby R4L » Wed May 16, 2018 1:28 pm

leileilol wrote:Blood 2
Powerslave
All Serious Sams


Seriously??
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Re: Great videogame concepts with bad executions

Postby leileilol » Wed May 16, 2018 8:33 pm

Yes.

Blood 2 suffers a lot from being rushed to the market and for a very unfinished engine to go with it. Most of it is slippery hitscan clunk with poor physics and feedback. There's nowhere near the amount of dynamite fun and enemy variety. It's like it was another game with a Blood cover slipped over it to make GT happy.

Powerslave also had poor control and performance issues. It came out a bit too late (wouldn't stick out like a sore thumb had it did its original 1995 release schedule, but.......Playmates). I imagined the console versions gave this the delay and missed polish on the backburner.

Serious Sam wears out its welcome quickly and becomes a drag. Extended Play's "hateful" 2/5 review of the Xbox release was on point. Not even counting the cult that revise Doom as if it was the original Sam all along (when BFE came out Sam fans always insisted its dullness was "a joke")...Serious sam, more like....serious same. Not hyped for 4.. The concept of a "old school fps" was novel in 2000 when there was the big rise of story, except the marketing on the percieved oldschoolness seemed to cloud over the not-actually-oldschool design issues, unless.....it's drawing from old bad Amiga games.
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Re: Great videogame concepts with bad executions

Postby insightguy » Wed May 16, 2018 8:50 pm

leileilol wrote:Blood 2 suffers a lot from being rushed to the market and for a very unfinished engine to go with it. Most of it is slippery hitscan clunk with poor physics and feedback. There's nowhere near the amount of dynamite fun and enemy variety. It's like it was another game with a Blood cover slipped over it to make GT happy.

Powerslave also had poor control and performance issues. It came out a bit too late (wouldn't stick out like a sore thumb had it did its original 1995 release schedule, but.......Playmates). I imagined the console versions gave this the delay and missed polish on the backburner.

Serious Sam wears out its welcome quickly and becomes a drag. Extended Play's "hateful" 2/5 review of the Xbox release was on point. Not even counting the cult that revise Doom as if it was the original Sam all along (when BFE came out Sam fans always insisted its dullness was "a joke")...Serious sam, more like....serious same. Not hyped for 4.. The concept of a "old school fps" was novel in 2000 when there was the big rise of story, except the marketing on the percieved oldschoolness seemed to cloud over the not-actually-oldschool design issues, unless.....it's drawing from old bad Amiga games.


Also with Powerslave: The saturn version was way better than the PC one, trying out the PC one and seeing the console version baffled me at first.

Sorry if I'm pushing, but what about these games did you think had great concepts? Kind of want to see what concepts can still be salvaged.
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Re: Great videogame concepts with bad executions

Postby CeeJay » Wed May 16, 2018 10:41 pm

4thcharacter wrote:Strife, since it doesn't know if it wants to be stealthy or not. But good thing that doesn't make it unplayable.


Despite it's minor identity crisis and somewhat underwhelming (and in some cases odd) weaponry, I found it to be a very well made and enjoyable game. But, yeah, the "stealth" mechanics never really did work properly.

As I've mentioned in another similar thread, I vote Witchaven. Interesting concept (for the time) and thick with atmosphere but piss-poor execution. Mostly it suffers from bad programming and really bland level design. Could have been so much more. But, that's Capstone for you.
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Re: Great videogame concepts with bad executions

Postby 0mrcynic0 » Thu May 17, 2018 2:49 am

NeuralStunner wrote:Shadowcaster. IIRC the developers have mentioned that they weren't exactly happy with the final product either.

The shapeshifting mechanic is interesting enough, but combat itself is tedious and unrewarding. Balance is all over the place: Early on you are easily massacred by anything in melee range, by the end of the game you can pretty much just transform into a giant stone dude and punch the final boss to death with impunity.


I could also point out Lifeline, though this seems mainly like a fault of the technology not being mature enough.


I remember playing Shadowcaster as a kid...it was a tough game. The main character was basically a walking punching bag and all forms have at least only one useful ability. But I was able to finish it, regardless.

Moving on, I present Realms of the Haunting. An ambitious adventure + FPS hybrid with awful controls and monotonous first person shooting sequences.
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Re: Great videogame concepts with bad executions

Postby SamVision » Thu May 17, 2018 4:22 pm

That Robocop fps game, seriously it's ROBOCOP, it's practically asking for an awesome game but instead we got that mess.
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