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Re: Some new build engine thing

Postby Redneckerz » Wed Jan 29, 2020 3:37 pm

Graf Zahl wrote:Actually, I ripped out all OpenGL code from Polymost, there is nothing left from the GL 1.1 code path and even less from the "modern GL" code path. This part is entirely new code, as is the texture manager. To be clear: There is not a single line of OpenGL accessing code left from EDuke. I also completely rewrote the shader it uses for rendering on modern hardware.

Sounds like the rework is more extensive than i initially assumed it was, but i like where this is going.

Graf Zahl wrote:Probably not. Doom's geometry is mostly static, there lightmaps work. In Build sectors can move, in such cases it is entirely impossible to generate lightmaps at all!

Then a dynamic lighting system is more sensible. I vaguely remember icecoldduke was working on something as insane as deferred rendering in Build...

Graf Zahl wrote:Not quite. Due to the extensive changes and code replacements it should be clear that the result will require a bit of time to iron out all the issues. Don't worry, most of this will be a public testing phase, but there's a few things I need to take care of first or people may be a bit annoyed about some usability issues.

Judging from what the Discord is telling me, i see 3 responses (and variants thereof):
  • Curiosity and limited excitement. Because its not fully clear what this is and what this does, people hold reservations, but are interested.
  • Confusion. Since its not entirely clear what this is, instead of being curious, the response is less positive, but not overly critical.
  • Its Graf so... Unfortunately we also have users that link this announcement to history and paint with a biased picture.

All in all the overall consensus is positive and curiosity reigns, but, aside from the explanatory posts, its obvious that people are pining for details. But that's up to you. i am just gauging the reception and laying it down how it is recieved as neutral as possible.

Graf Zahl wrote:Don't worry, it's not Frankenstein's monster. These things fit together a lot better than this may sound. They were already cleanly separated subsystems before (except the menus, that is - and they are also the part that caused the most problems - but still less work than fixing up all the needed things in the existing menu code that came with the games - all 5 of them), so they were replaced one by one.

Yeah i definitely have a clear idea with what you are putting together but the way it sounds is rather abstract. From a laymans point of view it reads like a curious but impossible mixture of things.

I do have to say that one of the more common complaints i have read resides in the videos. It shows the various games this port plays, but you don't know its a port beyond that its referenced as a Build Engine teaser.

On the other hand its pretty obvious what a teaser stands for and that thus details should follow, but yeah, i am just passing this on.
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Re: Some new build engine thing

Postby Graf Zahl » Wed Jan 29, 2020 3:50 pm

Good to see it worked. Don't worry, a first alpha release is not too far off. Just don't expect anything rock-solid and bug free right out of the box. That will take a few releases and a bit more feedback.
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Re: Some new build engine thing

Postby Redneckerz » Wed Jan 29, 2020 3:57 pm

Graf Zahl wrote:Good to see it worked. Don't worry, a first alpha release is not too far off. Just don't expect anything rock-solid and bug free right out of the box. That will take a few releases and a bit more feedback.

What worked, hmm? :wink:

Sadly i am in the doghouse for providing support because well, Legacy nonsense and all. But in return ill do a write up of this on ZDoomWiki if a features/goals list is out of the door, and likely on DoomWiki too.

Lastly, that announcement is ofcourse great for R667. So there aswell.
I assume this puts some pressure on you, then again, there was a clear set goal as to why you are working on it, so some visibility can't hurt. :P

And that's it for me in this thread for now, else im just hijacking it. :mrgreen:
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Re: Some new build engine thing

Postby Gez » Wed Jan 29, 2020 4:27 pm

Redneckerz wrote:Perhaps this GZBuild or whatever its named

Spoiler: the actual name features neither "GZ" nor "Build". :P

And yeah, gotta manage expectations a bit there. It's not meant to be the alpha and omega of Build ports or to dethrone EDuke32. It's meant to be an alternative, that will offer different things.

Dancso wrote:If this ends up supporting Witchaven (2) with improved controls, i may finally bother finishing the damn game :D
Pretty excited regardless!


Witchaven, Witchaven 2, TekWar, Legend of the Seven Paladins, the Corridor 8 prototype and the Fate demo are not on the roadmap. Sorry!
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Re: Some new build engine thing

Postby SanyaWaffles » Wed Jan 29, 2020 6:55 pm

All I'm gonna say on the matter is simple:

The more the merrier. I genuinely have been wanting something like this for some time.
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Re: Some new build engine thing

Postby Kinsie » Wed Jan 29, 2020 7:59 pm

Dancso wrote:If this ends up supporting Witchaven (2) with improved controls, i may finally bother finishing the damn game :D
Pretty excited regardless!
The Capstone source code releases were never official, they were just sorta thrown out there by a former programmer, so they don't have a license and are legally dubious.

BuildGDX's implementations could be used as a reference, but 1.) It's in Java and 2.) I'm not sure how much of it is Soviet Reverse-Engineering Ingenuity and how much of it is from the source code.
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Re: Some new build engine thing

Postby Captain J » Wed Jan 29, 2020 8:53 pm

If only we could find the original programmer who worked on Capstone games, then we might have a chance. Maybe. I mean, does anyone still remember and fond of Capstone Software and their games before Civvie 11 mentioned it quite often like how AVGN treated LJN?

But this might get lucky if we make build engine mod out of capstone games.
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Re: Some new build engine thing

Postby Kinsie » Wed Jan 29, 2020 9:25 pm

Captain J wrote:If only we could find the original programmer who worked on Capstone games, then we might have a chance. Maybe.
That's where the leaked source code releases came from! There's ownership issues with the now-defunct Capstone/Intracorp to deal with, and while it's highly unlikely someone would get their door kicked down over it, it's probably best not to chance it.
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Re: Some new build engine thing

Postby Phredreeke » Wed Jan 29, 2020 9:28 pm

It was the original programmer who released the source code for the Capstone games in the first place. (kinsie beat me to it)

As for BuildGDX's TekWar and Witchaven ports, I have no doubt they were based on the released source code.
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Re: Some new build engine thing

Postby Graf Zahl » Thu Jan 30, 2020 12:52 am

Phredreeke wrote:As for BuildGDX's TekWar and Witchaven ports, I have no doubt they were based on the released source code.


It was heavily reworked for sure, but some of the function and variable names strongly suggest it was based on the original source.
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Re: Some new build engine thing

Postby Redneckerz » Thu Jan 30, 2020 2:36 am

Gez wrote:Spoiler: the actual name features neither "GZ" nor "Build". :P

And yeah, gotta manage expectations a bit there. It's not meant to be the alpha and omega of Build ports or to dethrone EDuke32. It's meant to be an alternative, that will offer different things.

I was told it has atleast a ''Z'' in the name :wink: Given Graf's German and some of his frustrations with Duke code, i had a colorful name presented on Discord:

ZcheisseDuke.

I also thought of ''Omega'' as Graf mentioned that if he had to name his PrBoom fork something, it would be that, but that has no Z.

As long as its not Zandronum levels of imaginative naming, i am sure it will work out in the end :)
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Re: Some new build engine thing

Postby Kinsie » Thu Jan 30, 2020 2:57 am

My joke name I suggested on the Discord was fremdschamen.exe, in honor of Graf's visceral reaction to parts of BUILD's code in the old thread.

I also did some icons last year when I thought this was going to be called GZDuke or something, since that's not the case I might as well kick 'em out here:
ImageImage
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Re: Some new build engine thing

Postby Graf Zahl » Thu Jan 30, 2020 3:08 am

Redneckerz wrote:ZcheisseDuke.


That one hurts just from looking at it... :roll:
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Re: Some new build engine thing

Postby lowskill. » Thu Jan 30, 2020 3:19 am

Oh you guys, if you like how GZDoom feels and plays, all I'm saying is that you're gonna love this after just a couple of minutes of use ;) .
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Re: Some new build engine thing

Postby Gez » Thu Jan 30, 2020 3:20 am

Redneckerz wrote:I was told it has atleast a ''Z'' in the name :wink:

Technically wrong.

Spoiler:
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