Raze officially revealed!

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Re: Raze officially revealed!

Postby Dynamo » Wed Feb 05, 2020 6:20 am

PlayerLin wrote:
Graf Zahl wrote:
Gez wrote:They're running out of Build games to add support for, I guess.


Really? NAM and WW2GI are still missing and those are a lot less obscure than this.


Lot7P was proved one thing: No metter how shitty game was/is, still many want to play and like that.

......TBH, I'm so surprised when I introduced MARS3D to non-Chinese users and now it has English locale patch/limited physical copy too. :3:

Wait a minute, the only way to obtain the english version is to buy what is abandonware from people who were never involved with it? Or is the translation patch available elsewhere? I've completed the game some time ago (at least the first episode - no clue if it's possible to play the other two) but an english translation is neat to see: limiting it to a total of 100 copies though seems really bizarre.

Also, I must be the only one who liked Witchaven... :P
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Re: Raze officially revealed!

Postby Graf Zahl » Wed Feb 05, 2020 6:26 am

Dzierzan wrote:What is your stance for widescreen weapon sprites? Are you going to bundle them with your port or it will be up to the user to provide them? I've done widescreen weapon sprites for Lot7p, some for Redneck Rampage, Powerslave, Liquidator 3D (bootleg Russian game using Duke Nukem 3D as the base). I wouldn't mind of Raze uses them too.


If you already have them, bring'em on. I'll have to do some checking to see how I can restrict them to override the base tiles but not mod replacements. I remember there is some checksum handling in the replacement code but how is this used?
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Re: Raze officially revealed!

Postby Redneckerz » Wed Feb 05, 2020 6:39 am

You may aswell look at Plunder & Pillage for a similarly modified Duke 3D game. (The author also made some politically themed games on the engine tho, not sure if you want that.) Its a very short game anyway, but its pirate themed and the one time i played it (several years ago) it was some good fun.

In regards to Paladins 3D: Its great that GDX attempts to support it, but its one of the earliest Build titles out there, using an illegal Build of well.. Build :wink: It got released in 1994-1995, so before Duke and before Witchaven even. It is literally based on unfinished Build code, so if you want to support that via Raze, the GDX part is probasbly the best option.

Another good list of TC's and levels, also for testing purposes similar to what i posted earlier is the RTCM Mod Page. Just adding this in for usefulness sakes.
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Re: Raze officially revealed!

Postby PlayerLin » Wed Feb 05, 2020 7:01 am

Dynamo wrote:Wait a minute, the only way to obtain the english version is to buy what is abandonware from people who were never involved with it? Or is the translation patch available elsewhere? I've completed the game some time ago (at least the first episode - no clue if it's possible to play the other two) but an english translation is neat to see: limiting it to a total of 100 copies though seems really bizarre.


Limited shit has better value to some, I guess? :P

As I know the team has no plan to release download version of the game...I respect that since they did those jobs(translations, boxart, manual etc.) and the game still buggy as hell...so yeah, whatever.
Maybe they would re-considering or someone just put out a ISO of that version on internet, who knows.

It only has 7 levels on first episode, as it seems unfinished, found some leave-over maps from Quake or DooM, also some leave-over artworks about MP mode but seems never finished too, so well, you didn't lose anything I'm sure. :roll:

Redneckerz wrote:In regards to Paladins 3D: Its great that GDX attempts to support it, but its one of the earliest Build titles out there, using an illegal Build of well.. Build :wink: It got released in 1994-1995, so before Duke and before Witchaven even. It is literally based on unfinished Build code, so if you want to support that via Raze, the GDX part is probasbly the best option.


Poor Apogee had to deal with the most ridiculous game developer ever...hmm, don't know if the GDX guy knows the second version of Lot7P exists.
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Re: Raze officially revealed!

Postby Kinsie » Wed Feb 05, 2020 8:14 am

Graf Zahl wrote:
Dzierzan wrote:If you already have them, bring'em on. I'll have to do some checking to see how I can restrict them to override the base tiles but not mod replacements. I remember there is some checksum handling in the replacement code but how is this used?
You can do this in the .def defintions. See Nightfright's Duke3D Fixes pack for an example.
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Re: Raze officially revealed!

Postby Graf Zahl » Wed Feb 05, 2020 8:19 am

Ok, I remembered something like that.
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Re: Raze officially revealed!

Postby Zaratul » Wed Feb 05, 2020 9:21 am

Great job! Looking forward to playing this port. And the Shadow Warrior support. :)
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Re: Raze officially revealed!

Postby Tea Monster » Wed Feb 05, 2020 9:27 am

Is model support in? I tried creating an autoload folder and putting a mod or two in there and nothing happened.
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Re: Raze officially revealed!

Postby Gez » Wed Feb 05, 2020 9:49 am

No, models are not supported yet. (Voxels should work, though.)
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Re: Raze officially revealed!

Postby Graf Zahl » Wed Feb 05, 2020 10:43 am

Model code is in, it's just broken right now and I haven't found time yet to check what's wrong.
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Re: Raze officially revealed!

Postby Rachael » Wed Feb 05, 2020 10:44 am

AFAIR in EDuke32 the models are only enabled in Polymer, anyhow. Nobody bothered implementing them in Polymost.
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Re: Raze officially revealed!

Postby Graf Zahl » Wed Feb 05, 2020 10:52 am

The code is there to render them. I rather suspect a porting error on my side.
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Re: Raze officially revealed!

Postby Blzut3 » Wed Feb 05, 2020 10:55 am

Graf Zahl wrote:1. The unclear license situation. Assuming I eventiually manage to get my own renderer working there is a real possibility to eliminate all Build code and its toxic license. In such a case these games would be just as toxic, if not more.

Usual caveats aside, I'm not entirely sure the license for the Blood, Redneck Rampage, or Exhumed reverse engineering efforts is anymore clear. Same could be said about Strife I guess. I highly doubt those efforts were clean room if they're demo compatible. So in theory the respective companies would have some stake in the copyright on the sources as it's primarily a translation from assembly to C++.

Based on my experience with Corridor 7 and Operation Body Count the Capstone games do have their fans. It seems either you "get it" or you don't since I can't say I've seen anyone just be like "they're fine I guess," but they have their fans.
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Re: Raze officially revealed!

Postby Rachael » Wed Feb 05, 2020 11:00 am

There is one other thing to consider as well, though this is *much* more of a legally dubious consideration:

Would anyone actually come after you for it? The only people who are legally eligible to do so are the actual rights holders and it would be whoever might have attained the IP assets as the companies themselves dissolved. Ever hear the old saying "extracting blood from a stone"? If they went after you it would ultimately be a waste of time and cost. They only want to do it if you have a lot of money, and considering you're a person not a corporation, all they're going to manage to do is possibly put you in prison at the cost of MASSIVELY bad PR and embarrassment on their side, and in the end they really gain nothing substantive from it for all their efforts. Plus there's the fact that you're reviving a piece of forgotten entertainment, anyhow, an endeavor which ultimately benefits them in the end if they allow it to happen.

So there's that aspect of it - technically, it's illegal, but they'd lose a lot more than they'd gain by pursuing the letter of the law over it - it'd be petty and counterproductive if they did.

If this bit weren't true, you can be sure the rights holders would've gone after BuildGDX a long time ago already.

The other option is to wait for a company like NightDive (possibly even them, themselves) to obtain the rights for said properties and then just license it from them anyhow, or hope they release the source under a permissive license.
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Re: Raze officially revealed!

Postby axredneck » Wed Feb 05, 2020 11:15 am

Graf Zahl wrote:Really? NAM and WW2GI are still missing and those are a lot less obscure than this.

Doesn't EDuke32 support them?
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